43 replies to this topic

[Hipshot]

When my ex-fiance broke up with me, she kept the ring and stuck me with about $600 of debt. After I got over things emotionally, I wrote it off as the price of a clean break.

Rick



Nobody's perfect until you fall in love with them.

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

This gal is NOT a christian any more than I am an octopus who can live under water and then spin out of the water and fly like a helicopter. This gal is a con artist. Just because she says she is something doesn't make it so. Her actions speak of who and what she is.

The Bible talks about people who will even try to pull this same line on God when they stand before Him at judgement and say, "Hey I am a christian and did a lot of good stuff in your name!" To which the Bible says God will say, "Depart from me you evil doing worker of inquity, I never knew you!" Unless this gal changes and repents I think those words are in her future.

The Bible also says by someone's fruits we will know them and be able to judge or determine what the real deal is. Her fruits/actions reveal she is an evil lying theif who preyed upon some well meaning guy and his heart.

[jeff]

christians are not to be married to non-believers, if one becomes a christian then they are encouraged to remain married.

There is a chance that he would become a christian because of her good works, but there is a better chance for her to backslide away from christianity.

Heaven is along way in the future, when their life together is so rosey. Like the episode on Sienfield when Elains boyfriend didn't care if she was going to hell, its her life and eternity; hard feeling when you care about someone though.

silly reason, there is something else wrong between them.

Christians are normal people that make the same odd decisions as other people. She probably just got her mainland boyfriends debt paid off of her cards.

[drbill]

I'm not a betting man, but I'd be willing to put a wager that his chances of getting in to heaven may be better than hers. A God I'd believe in would favor works over words.

As I said, this is not a criticism of Christians in general, just of one hypocritical one.

Thanks all for the feedback. I told him some of it (he's not a diver or even an Internet surfer) and it did make him feel better.

Edited by drbill, 07 January 2007 - 06:50 PM.

[WreckWench]

Thank you for sharing with him.

It is a shame that he has been hurt by a bad person. It makes the rest of us look bad!

p.s. My god does honor works over words...I think they all do!

[mantarraya]

I just can't in my wildest dreams imagine asking, or even if not asking, accepting if offered, that level of financial help from someone with whom I am involved in a romantic relationship. But then, I also cannot imagine keeping the ring from a broken engagement...unless it was broken by some type of violent encounter where I was afraid of further contact. Even then, I would likely seek to send it to the guy via mail or a friend. The only other way I would keep the ring was if it had belonged to a member of my family, or contained stones or materials from a ring that I or some family member of mine had owned.

Honestly, I think this woman just flat-out suckered your friend. But suckering someone is certainly not something that is exclusive to one gender versus the other.

Edited by mantarraya, 07 January 2007 - 08:52 PM.

[cat fish]

Everyone who has commented on this post is correct... this woman is a Whack Job and a User, and nothing else. Please tell your friend, "Do not to despair or give up .. most of us have Been Had at one time or another." Instead, your friend needs to learn that if someone is eyeing his wallet, that's a very dangerous sign. He needs to establish trust in other ways, because a Real Woman wouldn't have expected that of him. Give our best regards to your friend who is feeling pain at this time.

[drbill]

Thanks again to all who commented. I really hate to believe all this about this woman (who I know, too, but not as well as my friend). However, it is sad to see him so torn apart by this and she doesn't seem to be feeling any pain (although I haven't talked to her yet).

Edited by drbill, 08 January 2007 - 12:04 AM.

[Moose]

Thanks again to all who commented. I really hate to believe all this about this woman (who I know, too, but not as well as my friend). However, it is sad to see him so torn apart by this and she doesn't seem to be feeling any pain (although I haven't talked to her yet).

I’m chiming in here late, but I want to echo some comments…

First, religion. She is not what she claims to be. She is hiding behind a Christian cloak. She uses it for a convenient excuse to get out of the relationship. But she is not a Christian.

The ring, local laws vary, but in NJ, it’s hers. Even if she doesn’t accept the marriage proposal. The ring is a gift.

As for the debt, your buddy assumed it. It’s his now. (Again, local laws may vary.)

While this woman represents a boarder line criminal element, your buddy made a bunch of missteps as well. He knew what he was getting into and he still went full forward. Not that that is wrong, but he should have realized that any money put towards the relationship, was money he should never expect to recoup. A relationship is not a “zero sum” proposition. Sometimes you give more then you get, and vice-versa. In fact, a good proverb about this goes something like (I’m paraphrasing here) “Never lend money to anyone. Only give it away. If they pay it back, great. Otherwise, have no expectation to see it again.”

If he couldn’t afford the debt, they why did he agree to the purchases? He could have said, “We’ll get new furniture when we saved up the money for it, TOGETHER!”

Again, I’m not saying that your buddy isn’t a victim, but he is far from innocent.

With that said, I’ve been where your buddy is more than once. I’ve spent thousands of dollars helping out new gfs. I never expected to be repaid, (and so far, I was right! ) I don’t worry about it. Again, I give only what I can afford to lose. I even gave a ex a bedroom set AFTER we broke up, as she was moving out and needed some furniture for her new apartment.

As for the comment on the TV court shows, please note that many of them are NOT legal proceedings. Both parties agree to dismiss their cases in court, and appear on the show. Many times, the show pays both sides what they are seeking as an “appearance fee.” There are no appeals and the decision can be flexible to what the ratings of the show need them to be.

Edited by Moose, 08 January 2007 - 07:14 AM.

[drbill]

...If he couldn’t afford the debt, they why did he agree to the purchases? He could have said, “We’ll get new furniture when we saved up the money for it, TOGETHER!”...

Interesting perspective, Moose.

One thing I may have forgotten to mention was that when "he" assumed her debt, they were supposed to repay it together. What he did was put it on his credit cards because she had no access to credit, but he (and she, at least according to him as far back as when it was done) considered it their debt to be paid off in partnership. That was how they had been dealing with it.

Too bad he didn't get it in writing, but he assumed she was honorable.

Edited by drbill, 08 January 2007 - 09:24 AM.

[Boatlawyer]

Moose & USBB - you two should get together, you are both so logical and astute!

Using religion as a mask has been around as long as well, religion. But, putting that aside for the moment, sounds like your friend had a bad case of rescue-itis. In the name of LUUUVVVV he was going to swoop in and fix this faire maiden. No doubt she painted herself as a victim of circumstances, like any good con artist.

Your friend got off easy as far as I can tell. She is gone and all he has to do is pay back money. My brother ignored all red flags in a similar situation and ended up spending time in the Big House. After loaning her thousands, buying the engagement ring, paying for breast enhancement, and taking her and her three kids in to his home, he figured out that she had lied about all of her tales of woe. After several months he was able to get her to move out, at which point she began an incessant letter writing, telephone and text messsaging campaign including threats that led to him getting a restraining order against her. She in turn accused him of hitting her (3 weeks after the alleged incident) and informed his employer who put my brother on unpaid leave til the matter was resolved.

After three months of no paycheck and thousands in legal fees the matter had not come to trial and my brother was given the option to plead no contest in exchange for the judge withholding adjudication and placing him on probation, which he accepted in order to get back to work.

During his probation, he crossed paths with the ex-grilfriends daughter and her friend in a supermarket. The girls taunted him to try to get him to say something in violation of the probation order. He said nothing, but the girls claimed he did. The police were called, who concluded there was no probabtion violation. The ex-girlfriend went to his probation officer and had her daughter swear that my brother had cursed at them. Based on this affidavit a warrant for arrest was signed and my brother was taken into custody.

When someone is jailed on a probation violation, due process rights are very limited. His first hearing was two weeks later, and his lawyer screwed up the notice for a bond hearing which was then postponed for two weeks. After a month my brother was released.

So, you see, it could be a lot worse. Tell your friend to put as much road as possible between himself and this psychopath. And then he needs to get himseld into therapy to work on that rescue complex.

Edited by Boatlawyer, 08 January 2007 - 01:57 PM.

[jextract]

Has he considered exploring the legal avenue that she intentionally defrauded him?

[scubagirl]

I am getting in here late but I agree with the rest, she was and still is thief. My thoughts are with your friend and hope he doesn't give up on the female gender.

[Boatlawyer]

Has he considered exploring the legal avenue that she intentionally defrauded him?

Problem with that is that even if he prevailed, which is doubtful as pointed out by moose, he would be left, after spending even more money in legal fees (likely unrecoverable in the absence of an instrument providing for same), with a money judgment against her. Since she doesn't have any money, and will likely build up more debt for some other chump to pay off, he'll end up with a very expensive piece of paper. Plus, she can always file bankruptcy to discharge the judgment.

He should take any money earmarked for legal proceedings and use them for therapy. Much higher odds for a better outcome.

[spinartist]

He should take any money earmarked for legal proceedings and use them for therapy. Much higher odds for a better outcome.

Boatlawyer is exactly right that this manipulative woman is an example of what collection attorneys would call "judgment-proof." Not judgment in the sense of the Christian/non-Christian debate earlier in the thread, but judgment in the legal definition of a court order to pay up. Getting that order is the easy part (easy, but not cheap) ... but collecting the first dime would be very difficult. To cite one famous case, just ask Ron Goldman how much he has collected in his multimillion dollar judgment against OJ Simpson. (answer: zero)

So while Boatlawyer's counsel to avoid the wasteful expense of litigation is wise, I must disagree with her when she suggests using the money for therapy instead. Paying $100 an hour to emote your woes while someone takes notes and says "hmm, how do you feel about that?" is even a bigger waste of money.

DrBill, tell your island-dwelling friend to spend his recovery money at the nearest dive shop. For less than the price of a months' worth for shrink visits, he can get his C-card and equipment. It will be the best therapy he's ever had, and who knows? He just might meet a quality woman for a change; the scuba world's full of them. I hear there's even a website out there just for single divers.