28 replies to this topic

[drbill]

Ok at the risk of looking silly...but this is a joke to prove your point right? Please tell me this didn't really happen!

Must agree that it DOES happen. Not to me, of course, but I've seen it in other couples I know. It doesn't always end in divorce though.

[finGrabber]

Once upon a time a couple fell in love and were soon married. Everything was perfect. Well, everything was almost perfect, there was just one tiny little thing about him that annoyed her, but everything else was perfect. Knowing that communications is the key to a successful relationship, she expressed her concern over this one little point. He loved her and while change was difficult, he tried to chamge this one little thing for her. He wasn't always successful at first, but with hard work and her helpful reminders, eventually he was successful in making the change. Now everything really was perfect. Well, she hadn't noticed it at first, but there was this other thing............... Over the years of their marriage, this was the pattern, she asked him to change, so he did. She asked him to change so he did. After all, she loved him and wanted things to be perfect. He loved her and would do anything to make her happy. They both wanted to stay together forever.

One day after 10 years of marriage, she told him she wanted a divorce. He was floored! "Why?" he asked.

Her reply, "You're not the man I married."

Well, this just goes to show there's a thin line between love and hate

this also illustrates to be careful what you ask someone else to do for you...they may change into someone you don't know anymore nor particularly respect either

[Twinklez]

Once upon a time a couple fell in love and were soon married. Everything was perfect. Well, everything was almost perfect, there was just one tiny little thing about him that annoyed her, but everything else was perfect. Knowing that communications is the key to a successful relationship, she expressed her concern over this one little point. He loved her and while change was difficult, he tried to chamge this one little thing for her. He wasn't always successful at first, but with hard work and her helpful reminders, eventually he was successful in making the change. Now everything really was perfect. Well, she hadn't noticed it at first, but there was this other thing............... Over the years of their marriage, this was the pattern, she asked him to change, so he did. She asked him to change so he did. After all, she loved him and wanted things to be perfect. He loved her and would do anything to make her happy. They both wanted to stay together forever.

One day after 10 years of marriage, she told him she wanted a divorce. He was floored! "Why?" he asked.

Her reply, "You're not the man I married."

Ok at the risk of looking silly...but this is a joke to prove your point right? Please tell me this didn't really happen!

Thank you! Thank you! That's part of what I was getting at. Emphasis on the "he was willing" part. Once all the changes are made he is no longer the man that made her heart go pitter patter. While Walter's story may be read as a joke, it happens everyday!

All of the qualities about me that my husband asked me to suppress once we were married are the same qualities that were overflowing from the woman he cheated with! I willingly changed things about me to please him. There was a whole list of other problems in the marriage, but I can honestly say today that I failed to remain true to myself and for that I take responsibility. Though I dare say that the marriage might have been even shorter (not a bad thing) had I refused to make the changes he requested.

I did it to please him. I thought he would love me more. I did it to avoid jealousy and insecurity on his part. So reading this it sounds like I did it for him, but the reality is I was doing it for me. You see, I thought if I dressed, talked, behaved as he requested that there was something in it for me. It wasn't one of those selfless acts...I wanted something in return for my changes. I got something alright. It just wasn't what I expected it to be.

It's not just the respect and admiration of the other person that's lost; you lose your self-respect as well which is far more important.

Edited by Twinklez, 15 January 2007 - 01:00 AM.

[Moose]

When I start to get wrapped up in someone else I want to see them and talk to them and do things together, alot. I don't call cause I don't want to call too much. But what if I don't call and he thinks I'm not all that interested? What if I do call and I smother him with attention? All these stupid questions start bouncing back and forth between my heart and my head beating me up from the inside out until I'm a complete basket case. Anyone that might have liked me for who I am is at that point running for dear life with the sound effects from Psycho pounding in their head.

First, great visual! Next, I think what the consensus of these discussions is, “Call him when you WANT to call him.” Don’t think about if it’s too much or too little. If you call him when you want to, he will get a feeling for what kind of time you want to spend with him. If it’s too much or too little, he can communicate that, or maybe he will decided that you aren’t right for him. Either way, you are ahead of the game. If you spend a lot of time trying to figure it out, you will most likely not get it right, and then blow it because you weren’t being yourself.

I lack love...but then again, do I? Or maybe it's just the romance I lack.

I feel the exact same way.

One day after 10 years of marriage, she told him she wanted a divorce. He was floored! "Why?" he asked.

Her reply, "You're not the man I married."

Great joke! But I want to interject something. Asking someone to “change” is a matter of degree. There are little things that people can do to better themselves, that maybe someone else can help them with. What if that “thing” was chewing with his mouth open? Maybe it bothered a lot of other people. With a little help, he can over come it and be a better person without losing himself or being weak.
What if that thing was finishing a degree? Maybe he has always felt ashamed that he never finished his degree. Now, with his wife’s support, he can focus on it and achieve a goal in his life.

Here is one from my life. I am a terrible dresser. I often dress like a cocktail waitress on an oil rig! However, I’ve been in relationships where my significant other helps me find clothes that look good and make me more presentable. I really enjoy dressing well; I just have no ability to do it myself*. (In fact, if I normally like an outfit, I reject it because I know that it most likely doesn’t match!) Am I weak because I have help picking out my clothes? Do I think that she is attracted to an oil rig waitress? No, but here is a little thing I can do to improve myself and I’m more than happy to do it.

Now, there is a line to this. If she starts saying things like, “I wish you would stop diving so much,” or “You know, I think you should get a full body tattoo and a ‘Prince Albert’!” All I can say is, “Exit, Stage Right, even!”


*=Maybe a topic to start another thread, but is it me or are other men completely blind to “patterns” and “fashion?” I mean, if a women picks up to plates in a store and asks, “Which pattern do you like better?” Do you just see to round, white plates like me? I’m also equally confused with “decorative items” in a home. If something doesn’t have a useful purpose, why do I need it, and even worst, DISPLAY it?

[WreckWench]

*=Maybe a topic to start another thread, but is it me or are other men completely blind to “patterns” and “fashion?” I mean, if a women picks up to plates in a store and asks, “Which pattern do you like better?” Do you just see to round, white plates like me? I’m also equally confused with “decorative items” in a home. If something doesn’t have a useful purpose, why do I need it, and even worst, DISPLAY it?

Definitely a new topic! Please start one...it will surely be good!

[WreckWench]

So Walter pm's me and says the story is true!

Here is what I can't figure out...how could someone ask you to be more off what they want and then decide they don't want you anymore????

I think Moose is right...perhaps my mind can only conceive of positive changes like helping someone to finish a degree, dress better, be more timely, be more communicative etc. but I can't see how these things would make someone no longer love you.

Tina mentions some changes driven by negative reasons i.e. insecurity and obviously she had a number of issues at play in that relationship. Had it been a different relationship and the changes were based upon positive criteria then I'd like to think that they would result in a positive outcome.

Do people really reach a point where if they get what they want...they no longer want it anymore????

[mantarraya]

If someone really expects their partner to do everything for him/her, that person is just plain selfish and/or lazy, so why would I want to be with him/her. Each partner in a relationship should be capable of handling his/her @!&% on their own. The role of the partner should be to make bearing whatever burden there is to be an easier endeavor, but certainly not taking on all that @!&% as their own with none of the burden remaining on the other party!

Also, if one partner feels it necessary to change that many things about the other partner, I just don't see that as love. I knew I had really scored with my current SO in that there is nothing significant that I want to change about him. He feels the same about me - we just love each other as we are. I don't see that will change if we decide to cement the deal with paperwork either.

I remember Walter saying (in a previous thread) that when his SO enters the room, it always makes him smile. That's how I feel about my guy, and how I always hope we will feel about each other.

Edited by mantarraya, 15 January 2007 - 10:17 AM.

[drbill]

I think Moose is right...perhaps my mind can only conceive of positive changes like helping someone to finish a degree, dress better, be more timely, be more communicative etc. but I can't see how these things would make someone no longer love you.

...Do people really reach a point where if they get what they want...they no longer want it anymore????

Women tell me all the time I need to dress better. What's wrong with getting 500 dives out of a wetsuit before you toss it in the can?

As for the second paragraph, all the time. Probably because they don't really know what they want in the first place.

Here's the wetsuit I dove in with Walter when he was out (the temp was a balmy 51 degrees):

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Edited by drbill, 15 January 2007 - 10:27 AM.

[finGrabber]

Do people really reach a point where if they get what they want...they no longer want it anymore????

this happens everyday! It's called "buyer remorse"

[Twinklez]

I think Moose is right...perhaps my mind can only conceive of positive changes like helping someone to finish a degree, dress better, be more timely, be more communicative etc. but I can't see how these things would make someone no longer love you.

Remember, "One man's trash is another man's treasure"? Or something like that.

I recently made a career change that floored my family and a lot of my friends and colleagues. I was very good at what I did. What I do now is more like a job as opposed to a career. No real special skills involved (at least in my opinion). However, there are many potential new career paths I can choose from where I'm at. I'm happy with what I'm doing; the money isn't great, but it's enough; and I'm not sure which one of those potential new paths I want to take just yet. But I never hear the end of it from family and friends. They're constantly pushing me to do what I used to do based on the amount of money I could make. No one considers my happiness. They view it as something positive, but I am the only one who knows how that career affected me. You want to see wicked? Give me back my old job career!

While you view a change as positive, what matters is how the changee feels.

The changes requested of me were things like not hugging a friend, not being friendly with someone I don't know (the female grocery clerk), refraining from wearing makeup, how I wear my hair, wearing jeans and t-shirts as opposed to dresses or slacks, riding horses with the black family down the street and visiting their church, maintaining friendships with people back home in California, decreasing my interactions with my own family and increasing interaction with his. The subtle hints came gently one at a time. The little things grew to be bigger things, and before I knew it had turned in to a pelting of demands until I no longer felt value as the person I was.

The changes are usually based on the requestor's reality. That husband was insecure with low self esteem and wanted me to be a plain jane so no other men would notice me; and they didn't. Another man earlier in my life wanted the exact opposite - spiked red heels, short short dresses that you couldn't bend over in all just to visit the shopping mall. He too was insecure with low self esteem and needed a toy to prove to other men that his sexual prowess exceeded theirs.

There are always going to be little things, and that's what they are - little; so leave them be. Remember, what you view as positive may very well be the one thing the other person dreads. If they make the change for you they're liable to be miserable the rest of lives. (Believe me, the effect reaches far past the end of a relationship.)

Also, if one partner feels it necessary to change that many things about the other partner, I just don't see that as love. I knew I had really scored with my current SO in that there is nothing significant that I want to change about him. He feels the same about me - we just love each other as we are. I don't see that will change if we decide to cement the deal with paperwork either.

Walter's story started with one little change.

Women tell me all the time I need to dress better. What's wrong with getting 500 dives out of a wetsuit before you toss it in the can?
Here's the wetsuit I dove in with Walter when he was out (the temp was a balmy 51 degrees):

Bill, I thought you dressed just fine. And while I don't remember that particular wetsuit, the blue one had some interesting modifications if I remember right. But hey, I never viewed diving as a beauty contest anyway so all that matters is if the gear does what it's supposed to do for you.

Do people really reach a point where if they get what they want...they no longer want it anymore????

this happens everyday! It's called "buyer remorse"

I'll echo Bill when he said it's usually because they don't know what they want in the first place. Maybe their choices are based on what they perceive is popular opinion with friends and family.

[Twinklez]

I think Moose is right...perhaps my mind can only conceive of positive changes like helping someone to finish a degree, dress better, be more timely, be more communicative etc. but I can't see how these things would make someone no longer love you.

It can very well make them feel that way. We chose our partners based on how we feel when we're with them. Let's say we chose someone whom we feel slightly superior to, and then we encourage them to get a degree. That person now has a boost of self-confidence and has grown into another person through education and achievement. We're no longer slightly superior...maybe we even feel less than the other person. Maybe the other person became arrogant with their new self-confidence. In any case, we may now feel differently about ourselves because of how we view our partner.

It can work the opposite: Honey, you're not happy with that high-paying job...leave it, I make enough money you can get something else that you'll be happy at. He does...and now she's the primary bread-winner. Power and control come to mind almost immediately. She now feels as though she's carrying the burden and he feels less than adequate.

Not saying that's how it works for everyone. Walter said earlier there are plenty of healthy relationships out there. These are certainly pitfalls to watch for as both the requestor and the person subject to change.

[Walter]

I remember Walter saying (in a previous thread) that when his SO enters the room, it always makes him smile. That's how I feel about my guy, and how I always hope we will feel about each other.

Darlin', unfortunately, I don't have one. I believe you are confusing me with my brother. He's also a keeper and Donna is aware of the fact. They both lucked out the day they met.

[mantarraya]

Also, if one partner feels it necessary to change that many things about the other partner, I just don't see that as love. I knew I had really scored with my current SO in that there is nothing significant that I want to change about him. He feels the same about me - we just love each other as we are. I don't see that will change if we decide to cement the deal with paperwork either.

Walter's story started with one little change.

I note that you emphasized the "nothing significant" words in my comment. The only thing I wanted my SO to change was to keep his apartment a little cleaner so I didn't have to worry about food poisoning or tripping over piles of stuff when it became clear I would be spending a lot of time there. Not a significant change, and one that he happily made (with my help, of course, as he would not have gotten it done without someone helping it along). Now there is -nothing- I would want to change in him. Fine as is, especially since he has been maintaining his living space pretty well!

As far as the comment about Walter, please clarify. I am not sure what you mean. I was referring to a post in another thread that he made a long time ago. He just seems so very happy with his SO, and had said that she made him smile whenever she entered the room. At the time, I thought I would like to have that with someone, and luckily, have gotten there since.... I still maintain if someone wants you to change that many things about yourself, it ain't you he loves but some image in his mind. Screw that!

---Edit to the above comment --- Sorry, Walter, for mixing you up with your brother...at least that is something of an explanation!

Edited by mantarraya, 15 January 2007 - 01:22 PM.

[shadragon]

A small amount of compromise is always needed in any relationship. However, that compromise should not change who you are as a person. Nor should it change your partner.

Wait for the right person and then it is like breathing. So natural you don't even think about it...