68 replies to this topic

[ScubaDadMiami]

Though I have not tried them (though a friend of mine that normally uses Jet Fins did--MannyDib), and I hear that the Dive Rite fins are very light and pretty powerful. That might be an alternative for the traveler.

[annasea]

Is this the fin you're referring to, Howard?

I'll make a point to check them out in person during my trip. I must say, I like the fact that they've got a spring-like strap already attached. And since they're black, I don't need to worry about colour coordinating my accessories (currently yellow) to them -- I can get that 3mm pink wetsuit after all!

Has anyone else tried them? I'd be curious to read more feedback.

I have yet another question... based on the size chart on the DiveRite webpage, I'm wondering if my current fins are the right size for me. Does it matter where the heel of your boot is in relation to the fin pocket? For example, mine hangs off a bit. Should the end of the heel be flush with the end of the fin pocket?

[ScubaDadMiami]

Yes, those are the fins. The back of the foot will hang out a bit on most all of the open heel designs; some more than others. As long as they feel comfortable, that's all that matters.

[annasea]

While poking around TDS, I found these spring straps in case anyone is in need. And at $32.88, they're cheap as borscht!

If anyone has any feedback on them, I'd like to hear it. My current fin straps are a PITA so I'd like to substitute them with the ones above. The connectors on them are metal so I'm guessing they're durable.

[JimG]

I dive a pair of Mares Avanti Quattros with Henderson dive booties...I've never had an issue with the frog kick, modified frog, or helicopter. I haven't been able to master backing up so the fin might be my problem - it always seems that I don't get any "grip" or "bite" though that could be an issue with technique too.

No offense intended, but my guess is that the problem is more with your technique than the fins. I use the Mares Avanti Tres (full-foot fins, similar to Quattros) when teaching in the pool, and I can back-kick quite effectively with those. In fact, those are the fins that I used to teach myself the back-kick, figuring that if I could master that with a pair of flimsy, floppy fins, then I could do it with any kind of fin (an assumption which has so far proved to be correct ). I obviously wouldn't recommend them for more advanced types of diving (doubles, drysuit, etc), but with a single tank rig in good conditions, they actually work pretty well.

The deal with the JetFins (which is what I normally use for OW diving) is not so much that they are the only fins that can be used for these kicks, it's that it's usually easier for people to learn the kicks with the Jets. They seem to have just the right combination of size, shape, and stiffness for that. Once you get your technique down though, you can do the kicks with almost any fin.

The other advantage of Jets is that they are negatively buoyant, which is a great help for divers in a drysuit and/or doubles. It's much easier to trim yourself out with the negative fins, and in most cases they completely eliminate the need for ankle weights.

-JimG

[finGrabber]

I dive a pair of Mares Avanti Quattros with Henderson dive booties...I've never had an issue with the frog kick, modified frog, or helicopter. I haven't been able to master backing up so the fin might be my problem - it always seems that I don't get any "grip" or "bite" though that could be an issue with technique too.

No offense intended, but my guess is that the problem is more with your technique than the fins. I use the Mares Avanti Tres (full-foot fins, similar to Quattros) when teaching in the pool, and I can back-kick quite effectively with those. In fact, those are the fins that I used to teach myself the back-kick, figuring that if I could master that with a pair of flimsy, floppy fins, then I could do it with any kind of fin (an assumption which has so far proved to be correct ). I obviously wouldn't recommend them for more advanced types of diving (doubles, drysuit, etc), but with a single tank rig in good conditions, they actually work pretty well.

-JimG

That's what I've been thinking - my technique is not up to par

I think I'm not putting my ankles at the correct angle so I'm not getting the blade of the fin engaged properly. I've watched video SDM sent me and that's about the only thing I can figure out right now. I really do not believe it's the fin as my Quattros have done everything I've asked other than this

I am looking at adding a pair of Jets...I'm about to start dry suit diving and I will need the extra weight on my feet.

[ScubaDadMiami]

Just recall how you feel about your fins now so that you can report on any differences you find between them and the new ones a little bit down the road.

[Walter]

I've heard great things about Jet fins, but frankly, as a solely *vacation* diver, I just can't see myself dragging those behemoths around!

Jets that fit Perrone might qualify as behemoths, Jets that fit you are tiny, easily fitting into your carry on bag.

[PerroneFord]

Thanks for trying Walter. Honestly, if I was just going to flutter kick around a reef, I doub't I'd be in Jets either. Maybe a set of used Force Fins is in order.

[JimG]

I think I'm not putting my ankles at the correct angle so I'm not getting the blade of the fin engaged properly. I've watched video SDM sent me and that's about the only thing I can figure out right now.

That "angle of attack" is key. I have tried to analyze what I am doing to get good movement on the back kick with crappy fins and I think it's this:

I believe that when people first start to learn the back kick, they "grab water" mostly with the sides of the fins. The JetFins have a very tall profile, and I think this makes it a lot easier to get some movement initially. However, I know that when I back-kick, I can definitely feel that I am getting resistance from the tops of my fins, which (being a much larger area) makes the kick more effective. So there is definitely something in how you turn your ankles and orient the fins on the power stroke.

I'm not sure that I can explain very well how to do this. I think it is something that you just have to learn by "feel". I know it took me a lot of time in the pool to figure it out - I probably spend at least 2-3 hours in the pool every week teaching classes, and I just decided one day to dedicate that time as best I could to learning the back kick. I would guess that it took me the better part of a year to "get it". Of course, that was with the crappy fins - YMMV may vary with a better quality pair.

Just keep working at it - eventually it will come to you.

-JimG

[Walter]

Thanks for trying Walter. Honestly, if I was just going to flutter kick around a reef, I doub't I'd be in Jets either. Maybe a set of used Force Fins is in order.

Naw, Jets are the way to go. I've been using them since I started diving. I've tried different fins, but I always come back to Jets. Also, around a reef, a flutter kick is not usually the best choice.

[JimG]

around a reef, a flutter kick is not usually the best choice.

I agree - the only time I use a flutter kick on a reef dive is if I am swimming down a narrow canyon or channel where a wider kick might cause damage, or if I am trying to swim somewhere "fast" (like to catch up to someone, or into a current). In both those cases I use the modified flutter, where the fins do not drop below the lowest part of the body.

For general "scooting around the reef", I tend to prefer a small motion modified frog kick, using only the ankles. With the right kind of fins and good technique, you can actually move fairly quickly with this particular kick. It also conserves a lot of energy, relative to other kicks that use more and/or larger muscles.

-JimG

[finGrabber]

around a reef, a flutter kick is not usually the best choice.

I agree - the only time I use a flutter kick on a reef dive is if I am swimming down a narrow canyon or channel where a wider kick might cause damage, or if I am trying to swim somewhere "fast" (like to catch up to someone, or into a current). In both those cases I use the modified flutter, where the fins do not drop below the lowest part of the body.

For general "scooting around the reef", I tend to prefer a small motion modified frog kick, using only the ankles. With the right kind of fins and good technique, you can actually move fairly quickly with this particular kick. It also conserves a lot of energy, relative to other kicks that use more and/or larger muscles.

-JimG

I agree with this as well; when I started using other kicks besides a flutter kick, my air consumption improved dramatically

and thanks for the tips, JimG; I'll have to practice some more with your advice in mind

[annasea]

I've heard great things about Jet fins, but frankly, as a solely *vacation* diver, I just can't see myself dragging those behemoths around!

Jets that fit Perrone might qualify as behemoths, Jets that fit you are tiny, easily fitting into your carry on bag.

I don't know... I went out into the world just now and discovered the smallest size for Jets is medium. Since Scubapro's website wasn't helpful, I consulted with kidspot's. He's got some great tips, BTW! More info here. According to kidspot's Jets vs. Turtles page, medium sized Jets are only 5" shorter than the XXLs. I couldn't find any info on weight but I do know they're significantly heavier than my current pair.

Regardless, I'll visit some of the dive shops in town with my boots in tow to see if Jets actually fit comfortably with my SeaSofts. (kidspot didn't have any data for SeaSofts on his boots and Jets page.) I doubt they'll fit but it'd be nice if they did. If I have a black pair of fins, I don't need to worry about coordinating my yellow fins to either matching or purple (complementary colour) suits and accessories anymore! Black and pink 3mm wetsuit -- here I come!

Thanks for trying Walter. Honestly, if I was just going to flutter kick around a reef, I doub't I'd be in Jets either. Maybe a set of used Force Fins is in order.

Mr. Funny...

[Scubatooth]

wow perrone i thought i never hear that about FF.

For me i can do all the fin kick in normal fins and in my FF as well you just have to be used to how the fins work (ie using your calves and ankles -- i can frogkick with just my ankles). I rotate the fins i use from my FF and then with my quattros, and space frogs.

For normal diving i use a set of pros, but for Drysuit im going to need a set of extra force or accelorators because of the extra drag, i can get by with the pros but at a little bit of a slower pace.

FWIW and YMMV

Tooth