93 replies to this topic

[Latitude Adjustment]

Being a photogragher I can make a poor buddy and most of my early diving was in NJ where you can't always see your buddy so I'm prepared with redundent equipment and experience to bail myself out and will call the dive early if things get iffy. I do alot of solo diving including the spot at Gull Island where the student died Sunday.
I have been doing this long enough to know that you can't let your ego get in the way of a safe way out!

[WreckWench]

Self Reliance comes from maturity and experience. It is the awareness that you ARE totally responsible for yourself and what happens.

We first enter Scuba with wide eyed wonderment which is good. Then as we make certain realizations as we mature in our diving and realize what we 'don't know'.

As we grow...we start to see all that we don't know and THEN we can start to really learn and start to be more self aware which is the first step to self reliance.

[ScubaDrew]

I would agree that self reliance is very important. You owe it to yourself and your family to be competent enough in what you are doing. You really can't count on the person you are diving with to react life and death situations with clarity and purpose. It is nice to have an extra set of hands or air source should something happen, but really, the repsonsibility to solve your problems is yours, because it is your life at stake.

[WreckWench]

I would agree that self reliance is very important. You owe it to yourself and your family to be competent enough in what you are doing. You really can't count on the person you are diving with to react life and death situations with clarity and purpose. It is nice to have an extra set of hands or air source should something happen, but really, the repsonsibility to solve your problems is yours, because it is your life at stake.

Now the trick is to reach more divers so that they can and will embrace this thought process and philosophy.

[gcbryan]

Just to keep this thread going...what else do you feel contributes toward your safety in addition to self-reliance?

For me I think it would be having a routine. When I dive more often I don't really actively think all that much since I try to do the same things everytime. I notice this more when I don't dive for a while. I have to think a little more and sometimes this is where mistakes are made.

A pilot has a check list and uses it on every flight even though he could well fly the plane without it. It's a form of redundancy and is a way to catch mistakes. You want to think but you also don't want to have to rely on memory exclusively.

When I'm diving more often I made less mistakes since I do the same things everytime. I think when even very experienced divers don't dive for a while their next dive is the most dangerous one.

So for me I believe having a routine in additon to self-reliance contributes to safety.

Anyone else have any other thoughts on safety?

[Racer184]

Benefit of a routine is that I have the habit of checking SPG, valve, inflator, 3 regs, weights, lights, knives....... before I even 'suit up'on the boat.

Disadvantage of the routine is that my insta-buddy may be trying to point out something to me and I am concentrating on my checklist 'routine'.

We first enter Scuba with wide eyed wonderment which is good. Then as we make certain realizations as we mature in our diving and realize what we 'don't know'.

As we grow...we start to see all that we don't know and THEN we can start to really learn and start to be more self aware which is the first step to self reliance.

I just learned this earlier this year. The 4 stages of competence. If I could remember where I learned it, I would give credit to the person that explained it to me.

1. Unconsciously incompetent
2. Conciously incompetent
3. Conciously competent
4. Unconciously competent.

These steps explained......
1. We don't even know what we dont know and need to know.
2. We become aware of how much we do not know
3. We learn the knowledge, and have to think about the proper procedure, responses, etc..
and after lots and lots of practice we hope to reach stage 4
4. We react / respond according to our knowledge without having to stop and think about it.

In stage 1, we make mistakes that make a small problem worse.
In stage 4, we react according to our training. Unfortunately if we learned our training wrong, we react wrong. (Practicing something wrong makes us very good at doing it wrong.) If our training and practice were correct, we do the correct thing ('muscle memory'))

I believe that by continuing my training (taking more courses) that it keeps me in stage 2 and 4 and sometimes 3. Hopefully, never getting into a situation where I am in stage 1 (which would be like going into an overhead environment. I know that there is a lot that I do not know, even though I have no idea what it is that I do not know about overhead environments, therefore I will do what I can to avoid overhead environments because in that situation I would be incompetent. It matters not whether I am conciously or unconciously incompetent, I am incompetent. )

I believe that it is most important for me to learn first about scuba (or anything with health risks) to know in what areas I am incompetent. This will keep me aware enough to stay out of situations in which I could get myself into worse trouble.

Edited by Racer184, 13 July 2007 - 04:06 PM.

[VADiver]

Just to keep this thread going...what else do you feel contributes toward your safety in addition to self-reliance?

For me I think it would be having a routine. When I dive more often I don't really actively think all that much since I try to do the same things everytime. I notice this more when I don't dive for a while. I have to think a little more and sometimes this is where mistakes are made.

A pilot has a check list and uses it on every flight even though he could well fly the plane without it. It's a form of redundancy and is a way to catch mistakes. You want to think but you also don't want to have to rely on memory exclusively.

When I'm diving more often I made less mistakes since I do the same things everytime. I think when even very experienced divers don't dive for a while their next dive is the most dangerous one.

So for me I believe having a routine in additon to self-reliance contributes to safety.

Anyone else have any other thoughts on safety?

I dive the same way regardless of if it's a technical dive or a recreational dive--the only difference is the equipment and planning. My gear is set up the same way, the dive is planned out before we get on the boat, and all equipment is thoroughly checked.

To facilitate proper dive planning I use the acronym GUE EDGE, and yes I am DIR.

GUE EDGE
G – Goal- Dive objectives
U - Unified team- team strategies
E - Equipment match
E – Exposure- Depth/Time
D - Decompression strategies
G - Gas strategies
E - Environmental issues

After the planning and gearing up, the team conducts a top to bottom gear check...where we actually test the mask, regs, lights, etc... This gear check starts with the mask and ends with the feet. This check has a twofold purpose...functionality and inventory. Once the check is complete the team splashes and heads to 20' to perform a bubble check. After this is performed dive the plan...

I understand this board is mostly centered around the recreational diver, but in my opinion both need to have a solid foundation.

Edited by VADiver, 13 July 2007 - 04:30 PM.

[ScubaDadMiami]

I, too, apply a ritual to my diving. This even includes storing each piece of gear (at home) in the same place each time.

[JohnEric]

Well for one I am lucky, my loyal DMs that I trained are with me during every class and they are my unsung heroes.
I am pretty confident I can handle emergencies during a check dive and they are well planned and controlled so I feel very safe and able to concentrate on my students.

I have had a lot of students who tell me they are not interesied in all the skills because as they put it "I only dive with a diving professional" when I go to a resort location. That attitude concerns me the most.

SO I spend ALOT of time trying to get them to understand that they are responsible for thier own safety first.

[WreckWench]

Just to keep this thread going...what else do you feel contributes toward your safety in addition to self-reliance?

For me I think it would be having a routine. When I dive more often I don't really actively think all that much since I try to do the same things everytime. I notice this more when I don't dive for a while. I have to think a little more and sometimes this is where mistakes are made.

A pilot has a check list and uses it on every flight even though he could well fly the plane without it. It's a form of redundancy and is a way to catch mistakes. You want to think but you also don't want to have to rely on memory exclusively.

When I'm diving more often I made less mistakes since I do the same things everytime. I think when even very experienced divers don't dive for a while their next dive is the most dangerous one.

So for me I believe having a routine in additon to self-reliance contributes to safety.

Anyone else have any other thoughts on safety?

I dive the same way regardless of if it's a technical dive or a recreational dive--the only difference is the equipment and planning. My gear is set up the same way, the dive is planned out before we get on the boat, and all equipment is thoroughly checked.

To facilitate proper dive planning I use the acronym GUE EDGE, and yes I am DIR.

GUE EDGE
G – Goal- Dive objectives
U - Unified team- team strategies
E - Equipment match
E – Exposure- Depth/Time
D - Decompression strategies
G - Gas strategies
E - Environmental issues

After the planning and gearing up, the team conducts a top to bottom gear check...where we actually test the mask, regs, lights, etc... This gear check starts with the mask and ends with the feet. This check has a twofold purpose...functionality and inventory. Once the check is complete the team splashes and heads to 20' to perform a bubble check. After this is performed dive the plan...

I understand this board is mostly centered around the recreational diver, but in my opinion both need to have a solid foundation.

Any routine is a good one if you follow it consistently and it accomplishes the task at hand. Exposure to different ideas, philosphies and ways of doing things is EXCELLENT for ALL divers and allows us to take what makes sense...and apply what we need. It also exposes us to areas in which we might like more information. If all people discussed their training in a non-judgemental way...I'm sure more people would find it appealing. That goes for ANYTHING in this world. Leave off the editorial and let the information speak for itself and people will respond in a positive manner.

This board is not centered around any type of diver other than the single, solo and buddyless diver. They can be recreational divers, new divers, commercial divers, cave divers, deep divers etc. The largest % of divers in general happen to be recreational divers but this community gives ALL of us a great chance to learn more...expand our skills and enter into new realms in our diving experience.

For that I am grateful and appreciative of posts like this and many of the ones in this thread and others. Thank you ALL for the time and effort you've given to help discuss valuable topics like this. I can assure you it is being very well received. And perhaps without knowing it...you are changing the perspective of one diver...or maybe two...who knows...perhaps more.

It takes the first drop to make a storm...

[WreckWench]

But I have had a lot of students who tell me they are not interesed in all the skills because as they put it "I only dive with a diving professional" when I go to a resort location. That attitude concerns me the most.

SO I spend ALOT of time trying to get them to understand that they are responsbile for thier own safety first.

I too was like that...because I was a poor diver and relied upon the DM or the instructor to 'help' me if I got in a bind. I regret that I was that way...but I had so many issues with water that I had no choice. 13 years later and 1000+ dives and those days are over. But gosh they sure lasted a long time!

I will say it is a very poor dive plan or mentality. However it is better than NOT hiring a dive professional to be your buddy and say diving 1x a year with rusty skills etc.

[gcbryan]

I, too, apply a ritual to my diving. This even includes storing each piece of gear (at home) in the same place each time.

Good point. I do that as well and at most dive sites I seem to be the equipment lender of first resort since I rarely forget anything myself but my buddies do. I don't always get that loaned out gear back either

Edited by gcbryan, 13 July 2007 - 07:29 PM.

[ScubaDrew]

I have a routine I do as well, but for me, what helps me to feel a little safer, is I do a what if every now and then on a dive. What if my bcd starts inflating? What if my reg freezes? Can I get to my buddy, am I too deep for a safe ascent?

I try to be prepared for the unexpected by running through my options while I am under control and relaxed. I find it does not interfere with my diving either, but does in a different way remind where I am, and that is pretty cool by itself.

Edited by ScubaDrew, 13 July 2007 - 09:07 PM.

[PerroneFord]

I have a routine I do as well, but for me, what helps me to feel a little safer, is I do a what if every now and then on a dive.

What if my bcd starts inflating?

How often do practice disconnecting your inflator?

What if my reg freezes?

How often you do practice feathing the valve on your tank?

Can I get to my buddy

Do you practice getting to your buddy with your reg out? Do you speak to them and prepare for it? Do you practice air shares regularly? At depth?

am I too deep for a safe ascent?

A safe ascent can be made from nearly any depth. Provided you manage your air.

I try to be prepared for the unexpected by running through my options while I am under control and relaxed. I find it does not interfere with my diving either, but does in a different way remind where I am, and that is pretty cool by itself.

Thinking about problems is a great step. Practicing emergency scenarios provides more assurances.

Edited by PerroneFord, 13 July 2007 - 11:02 PM.

[WreckWench]

I have a routine I do as well, but for me, what helps me to feel a little safer, is I do a what if every now and then on a dive.

What if my bcd starts inflating?

How often do practice disconnecting your inflator?

What if my reg freezes?

How often you do practice feathing the valve on your tank?

Can I get to my buddy

Do you practice getting to your buddy with your reg out? Do you speak to them and prepare for it? Do you practice air shares regularly? At depth?

am I too deep for a safe ascent?

A safe ascent can be made from nearly any depth. Provided you manage your air.

I try to be prepared for the unexpected by running through my options while I am under control and relaxed. I find it does not interfere with my diving either, but does in a different way remind where I am, and that is pretty cool by itself.

Thinking about problems is a great step. Practicing emergency scenarios provides more assurances.

Excellent points by both...visualization and practice. While on our NC trip many divers took advantage of the great weather to practice bag/sausage skills and a few others. We alerted the boat to be aware so they would not think that divers were floating all over the place.