63 replies to this topic

[Wookie]

Fuel is $4.45 in Key West today for the Spree. Private boats are paying $5.60. As I said in the Flower gardens thread, I would hold off on a fuel surcharge until fuel was $4.00, sorry folks, we made it. We will be assessing a $50 (cash or check only) fuel surcharge at time of boarding. Sandy, will you get this out to all participants? Sorry, Guys, but I do want to stay in business, and 4 and a half buck fuel is making it difficult. We will revisit again at $5.00







Note: This was broken off from one of the trip threads hence the reference to the Flower Gardens and Dry Tortugas trips.

[ScubaTex]

I'm paying more for diesel for my truck, in Texas!!!

If you're wondering why diesel is so high, I read in the Wall St. Journal last week, China is currently importing 500,00 metric TONS of diesel a month, whereas last year they were importing 30,000 metric tons/month. Seems they want to make sure they have fuel for backup generators during the Olympics, in case their power grid goes down.

See ya in Key West on July 8!!!

Bill

Fuel is $4.45 in Key West today for the Spree. Private boats are paying $5.60. As I said in the Flower gardens thread, I would hold off on a fuel surcharge until fuel was $4.00, sorry folks, we made it. We will be assessing a $50 (cash or check only) fuel surcharge at time of boarding. Sandy, will you get this out to all participants? Sorry, Guys, but I do want to stay in business, and 4 and a half buck fuel is making it difficult. We will revisit again at $5.00

[uwfan]

I'm paying more for diesel for my truck, in Texas!!!

If you're wondering why diesel is so high, I read in the Wall St. Journal last week, China is currently importing 500,00 metric TONS of diesel a month, whereas last year they were importing 30,000 metric tons/month. Seems they want to make sure they have fuel for backup generators during the Olympics, in case their power grid goes down.

See ya in Key West on July 8!!!

Bill

Fuel is $4.45 in Key West today for the Spree. Private boats are paying $5.60. As I said in the Flower gardens thread, I would hold off on a fuel surcharge until fuel was $4.00, sorry folks, we made it. We will be assessing a $50 (cash or check only) fuel surcharge at time of boarding. Sandy, will you get this out to all participants? Sorry, Guys, but I do want to stay in business, and 4 and a half buck fuel is making it difficult. We will revisit again at $5.00

They are probably also importing more fuel because more Chinese are beginning to enjoy the perks of a higher standard of living. Families that used a bicycle (yes, bicycle...for a family of four - it can be done!) to commute have moved up to motorcycles and those who used motorcycles have moved up to cars. Ah... the "American dream" turned Chinese! It's made me dust off the ol' bicycle myself to do a few of the chores and save a little $$.

No worries on the fuel surcharge ... it's a small price to pay to get wet!!

[Wookie]

No worries...we all knew it might happen. Let us know if it goes any higher...hopefully not!

The good news is that the price of diesel is higher than gas due to the ultra-low sulpher content. Marine engines are not required to burn ultra-low sulpher fuel for 2 more years. The local jobber has sent a barge to Panama to bring back some of that high sulpher 2 dollar fuel. At these prices, it is worth it to fill a barge with dollar fuel, bring it home, and sell it for 2. If that happens, we will drop the surcharge. I'm not holding my breath, but hoping for some results. Fuel is Texas is higher than Key West, so the surcharge aplies to all Spree (and Fling, different amount) trips.

Frank

[tgnjim]

No worries...we all knew it might happen. Let us know if it goes any higher...hopefully not!

The good news is that the price of diesel is higher than gas due to the ultra-low sulpher content. Marine engines are not required to burn ultra-low sulpher fuel for 2 more years. The local jobber has sent a barge to Panama to bring back some of that high sulpher 2 dollar fuel. At these prices, it is worth it to fill a barge with dollar fuel, bring it home, and sell it for 2. If that happens, we will drop the surcharge. I'm not holding my breath, but hoping for some results. Fuel is Texas is higher than Key West, so the surcharge aplies to all Spree (and Fling, different amount) trips.

Frank

Frank,
I speak only for myself here, but I would rather pay the extra for less polluting fuel. I also have a problem with supporting third world markets that are undercutting standards created to reduce overall polution. Come on people, you see directly on the reefs our human impact on the planet. Time for a change in attitude along with our change in Lattitude. (sorry Jimmy) When I worked doing weatherization on a DOE grant 30 years ago, my supervisor used to say...I hope we use all the petroleum up, then we'll finally get serious about alternatives. Well we aren't going to use it up anytime soon, but maybe the pocket book will make our wastefull culture take it seriously. Humbly, my 2 cents.

So my vote is for less polluting fuel. If you want to add a surcharge for updating your engines to a more environmentally friendly option, count me in. How about some Photovoltaic panels instead of the noisey generators...diesel, I assume. Or take advantage of the trade winds for a small wind generator? I don't have all the answers, but the time to start thinking about this is 40 years ago. It is never to late to make a start. The bottom line is that I am always willing to help pay for more environmentally friendly alternatives, and having some experience in the field always available to research options. I realize that my jaunting around the world for dive trips has a definite impact...I will do whatever I can to minimize that. However, I think it will take more than my voice...so if you agree, please post. I know that there are many SD members out there with even greater insight into this problem than I have. Let's make a difference!

Jim

Jim

[scubafanatic]

No worries...we all knew it might happen. Let us know if it goes any higher...hopefully not!

The good news is that the price of diesel is higher than gas due to the ultra-low sulpher content. Marine engines are not required to burn ultra-low sulpher fuel for 2 more years. The local jobber has sent a barge to Panama to bring back some of that high sulpher 2 dollar fuel. At these prices, it is worth it to fill a barge with dollar fuel, bring it home, and sell it for 2. If that happens, we will drop the surcharge. I'm not holding my breath, but hoping for some results. Fuel is Texas is higher than Key West, so the surcharge aplies to all Spree (and Fling, different amount) trips.

Frank

Frank,
I speak only for myself here, but I would rather pay the extra for less polluting fuel. I also have a problem with supporting third world markets that are undercutting standards created to reduce overall polution. Come on people, you see directly on the reefs our human impact on the planet. Time for a change in attitude along with our change in Lattitude. (sorry Jimmy) When I worked doing weatherization on a DOE grant 30 years ago, my supervisor used to say...I hope we use all the petroleum up, then we'll finally get serious about alternatives. Well we aren't going to use it up anytime soon, but maybe the pocket book will make our wastefull culture take it seriously. Humbly, my 2 cents.

So my vote is for less polluting fuel. If you want to add a surcharge for updating your engines to a more environmentally friendly option, count me in. How about some Photovoltaic panels instead of the noisey generators...diesel, I assume. Or take advantage of the trade winds for a small wind generator? I don't have all the answers, but the time to start thinking about this is 40 years ago. It is never to late to make a start. The bottom line is that I am always willing to help pay for more environmentally friendly alternatives, and having some experience in the field always available to research options. I realize that my jaunting around the world for dive trips has a definite impact...I will do whatever I can to minimize that. However, I think it will take more than my voice...so if you agree, please post. I know that there are many SD members out there with even greater insight into this problem than I have. Let's make a difference!

Jim

Jim

..well, speaking for those of us SD.com members on the lower end of the income scale, I appreciate Captain Franks efforts to mitigate fuel hikes by acquiring the 'cheaper' diesel fuel if possible. It's easy for wealthy divers to shrug off such expenses, it's even possible they welcome overall increased prices, thinking it will thin out the traveling diving population, keep out the riff-raff, leaving the reefs for the few diving 'elite'.

Anyone REALLY sincerely concerned about the environment would look in the mirror and calculate their own personal 'carbon-footprint' based on their standard of living and their diving trips. How much carbon is emitted on a flight, say, from NYC to the Maldives ? ...or Wakatobi ? How much carbon is emitted just jetting/shipping in all the supplies needed to keep a remote dive resort like Wakatobi running, and ready for tourist divers?

A few months ago 'Undercurrent' ran a very thought-provoking story, especially impactful to the upper-crust of the US diving community, on the socio-economic rise of China, and the projection that the US diving elite can soon expect to find themselves elbow-to-elbow with swarms of newly-affluent Asian divers discovering diving in the Pacific....so in time one can expect the 'remote'/'pristine' sites in the far Pacific to become as crowded/burned-out as so much of the Carribbean is today. But hey, at least when the US diving elite tires of the new reality, no more obscene NYC to Maldives fuel extravaganzas, so they will certainly feel very satisfied with themselves, having reduced their own personal carbon footprints at least!

Low sulfur fuel mandates are commendable here in the US, but if you look at the math, the insane growth in pollution from Chinese/Indian economies makes it pretty meaningless.

Karl

[DivingDeb]

No worries...we all knew it might happen. Let us know if it goes any higher...hopefully not!

The good news is that the price of diesel is higher than gas due to the ultra-low sulpher content. Marine engines are not required to burn ultra-low sulpher fuel for 2 more years. The local jobber has sent a barge to Panama to bring back some of that high sulpher 2 dollar fuel. At these prices, it is worth it to fill a barge with dollar fuel, bring it home, and sell it for 2. If that happens, we will drop the surcharge. I'm not holding my breath, but hoping for some results. Fuel is Texas is higher than Key West, so the surcharge aplies to all Spree (and Fling, different amount) trips.

Frank

Frank,
I speak only for myself here, but I would rather pay the extra for less polluting fuel. I also have a problem with supporting third world markets that are undercutting standards created to reduce overall polution. Come on people, you see directly on the reefs our human impact on the planet. Time for a change in attitude along with our change in Lattitude. (sorry Jimmy) When I worked doing weatherization on a DOE grant 30 years ago, my supervisor used to say...I hope we use all the petroleum up, then we'll finally get serious about alternatives. Well we aren't going to use it up anytime soon, but maybe the pocket book will make our wastefull culture take it seriously. Humbly, my 2 cents.

So my vote is for less polluting fuel. If you want to add a surcharge for updating your engines to a more environmentally friendly option, count me in. How about some Photovoltaic panels instead of the noisey generators...diesel, I assume. Or take advantage of the trade winds for a small wind generator? I don't have all the answers, but the time to start thinking about this is 40 years ago. It is never to late to make a start. The bottom line is that I am always willing to help pay for more environmentally friendly alternatives, and having some experience in the field always available to research options. I realize that my jaunting around the world for dive trips has a definite impact...I will do whatever I can to minimize that. However, I think it will take more than my voice...so if you agree, please post. I know that there are many SD members out there with even greater insight into this problem than I have. Let's make a difference!

Jim

Jim

..well, speaking for those of us SD.com members on the lower end of the income scale, I appreciate Captain Franks efforts to mitigate fuel hikes by acquiring the 'cheaper' diesel fuel if possible. It's easy for wealthy divers to shrug off such expenses, it's even possible they welcome overall increased prices, thinking it will thin out the traveling diving population, keep out the riff-raff, leaving the reefs for the few diving 'elite'.

Anyone REALLY sincerely concerned about the environment would look in the mirror and calculate their own personal 'carbon-footprint' based on their standard of living and their diving trips. How much carbon is emitted on a flight, say, from NYC to the Maldives ? ...or Wakatobi ? How much carbon is emitted just jetting/shipping in all the supplies needed to keep a remote dive resort like Wakatobi running, and ready for tourist divers?

A few months ago 'Undercurrent' ran a very thought-provoking story, especially impactful to the upper-crust of the US diving community, on the socio-economic rise of China, and the projection that the US diving elite can soon expect to find themselves elbow-to-elbow with swarms of newly-affluent Asian divers discovering diving in the Pacific....so in time one can expect the 'remote'/'pristine' sites in the far Pacific to become as crowded/burned-out as so much of the Carribbean is today. But hey, at least when the US diving elite tires of the new reality, no more obscene NYC to Maldives fuel extravaganzas, so they will certainly feel very satisfied with themselves, having reduced their own personal carbon footprints at least!

Low sulfur fuel mandates are commendable here in the US, but if you look at the math, the insane growth in pollution from Chinese/Indian economies makes it pretty meaningless.

Karl

What/who made you soooo angry to leave a reply that? Diving elite!? Bah Humbug. The people I have met on SD & divers in general haven't given me a sense of their ownership of the sea or that they have more right to enjoy it than other divers based on what they earn what they do or what trips they can take. What I like about divers is their acceptance of almost everyone- hmmm at least if they are a diver!

[scubafanatic]

...well, DivingDeb, my point is that I don't appreciate it when a dive operator (ie SPREE) attempts to stick up for the consumer, is working at controlling an escalation in their trip expenses, and someone chimes in with an 'it's only money' position. Not all of us are blessed with abundant pocketbooks...and not all of us live on the beach in Florida, with limitless cheap diving opportunities just around the corner...so let's not encourage dive operators to run up their prices if it can be avoided.

Karl

[pmarie]

scubafanatic
Not all of us are blessed with abundant pocketbooks...and not all of us live on the beach in Florida, with limitless cheap diving opportunities just around the corner...so let's not encourage dive operators to run up their prices if it can be avoided.

I think it would be safe to say that many of us are finding ways to reduce our costs of diving by carpooling, not eating out, or other financial adjustments that many are not aware of on a day to day basis. I do believe the comment about "live on the beach in Florida, with limitless cheap diving" is not a fair statement. I live in Florida, near the water, and I have had to be inventive with my finances to continue to dive in the manner that I enjoy. Just because diving is readily or easily accessable does not mean that it lacks financial impact on a person/family. Maximum Respect to all.

[tgnjim]

No worries...we all knew it might happen. Let us know if it goes any higher...hopefully not!

The good news is that the price of diesel is higher than gas due to the ultra-low sulpher content. Marine engines are not required to burn ultra-low sulpher fuel for 2 more years. The local jobber has sent a barge to Panama to bring back some of that high sulpher 2 dollar fuel. At these prices, it is worth it to fill a barge with dollar fuel, bring it home, and sell it for 2. If that happens, we will drop the surcharge. I'm not holding my breath, but hoping for some results. Fuel is Texas is higher than Key West, so the surcharge aplies to all Spree (and Fling, different amount) trips.

Frank

Frank,
I speak only for myself here, but I would rather pay the extra for less polluting fuel. I also have a problem with supporting third world markets that are undercutting standards created to reduce overall polution. Come on people, you see directly on the reefs our human impact on the planet. Time for a change in attitude along with our change in Lattitude. (sorry Jimmy) When I worked doing weatherization on a DOE grant 30 years ago, my supervisor used to say...I hope we use all the petroleum up, then we'll finally get serious about alternatives. Well we aren't going to use it up anytime soon, but maybe the pocket book will make our wastefull culture take it seriously. Humbly, my 2 cents.

So my vote is for less polluting fuel. If you want to add a surcharge for updating your engines to a more environmentally friendly option, count me in. How about some Photovoltaic panels instead of the noisey generators...diesel, I assume. Or take advantage of the trade winds for a small wind generator? I don't have all the answers, but the time to start thinking about this is 40 years ago. It is never to late to make a start. The bottom line is that I am always willing to help pay for more environmentally friendly alternatives, and having some experience in the field always available to research options. I realize that my jaunting around the world for dive trips has a definite impact...I will do whatever I can to minimize that. However, I think it will take more than my voice...so if you agree, please post. I know that there are many SD members out there with even greater insight into this problem than I have. Let's make a difference!

Jim

Jim

..well, speaking for those of us SD.com members on the lower end of the income scale, I appreciate Captain Franks efforts to mitigate fuel hikes by acquiring the 'cheaper' diesel fuel if possible. It's easy for wealthy divers to shrug off such expenses, it's even possible they welcome overall increased prices, thinking it will thin out the traveling diving population, keep out the riff-raff, leaving the reefs for the few diving 'elite'.

Anyone REALLY sincerely concerned about the environment would look in the mirror and calculate their own personal 'carbon-footprint' based on their standard of living and their diving trips. How much carbon is emitted on a flight, say, from NYC to the Maldives ? ...or Wakatobi ? How much carbon is emitted just jetting/shipping in all the supplies needed to keep a remote dive resort like Wakatobi running, and ready for tourist divers?

A few months ago 'Undercurrent' ran a very thought-provoking story, especially impactful to the upper-crust of the US diving community, on the socio-economic rise of China, and the projection that the US diving elite can soon expect to find themselves elbow-to-elbow with swarms of newly-affluent Asian divers discovering diving in the Pacific....so in time one can expect the 'remote'/'pristine' sites in the far Pacific to become as crowded/burned-out as so much of the Carribbean is today. But hey, at least when the US diving elite tires of the new reality, no more obscene NYC to Maldives fuel extravaganzas, so they will certainly feel very satisfied with themselves, having reduced their own personal carbon footprints at least!

Low sulfur fuel mandates are commendable here in the US, but if you look at the math, the insane growth in pollution from Chinese/Indian economies makes it pretty meaningless.

Karl

What/who made you soooo angry to leave a reply that? Diving elite!? Bah Humbug. The people I have met on SD & divers in general haven't given me a sense of their ownership of the sea or that they have more right to enjoy it than other divers based on what they earn what they do or what trips they can take. What I like about divers is their acceptance of almost everyone- hmmm at least if they are a diver!

Ouch! I think I hit a sore spot here. But you know, I guess my intention was to get people thinking & talking about solutions, so maybe I did allright. Thanks Karl, I've never been refered to as elite! I'm just this guy who goes to work Mon. - Fri. & sometimes more. I can afford dive trips only because my cost of living is low. I have no mortgage, but no home equity. I have been self employed most of my life, so no retirement net. I took my retirement in my twenties. I'll work till I drop now. But quality of life has always taken first priority. I realize that jetting to far off destinations has an effect. That is why I try to minimize travel versus length of stay. But yes, many of your points are valid. That is why it is so important for us in the diving community to discuss them in a realistic & meaningfull way. And then come up with some options to mitigate our impact. So please, excuse me if gave offense, but I do feel that my observations have creedence as do yours.

Any other ideas on the situation out there? Specifically as to what we as traveling divers can do to minimize our impact.

Jim

[cmt489]

Anyone REALLY sincerely concerned about the environment would look in the mirror and calculate their own personal 'carbon-footprint' based on their standard of living and their diving trips. How much carbon is emitted on a flight, say, from NYC to the Maldives ? ...or Wakatobi ? How much carbon is emitted just jetting/shipping in all the supplies needed to keep a remote dive resort like Wakatobi running, and ready for tourist divers?

And some of us do struggle with this everyday. I am actually VERY conflicted about how much of a carbon footprint I leave in order to enjoy my dive trips. I haveeven assessed whether or not it is worth it but, at the end of the day, travel and diving are two activities I love too much to give up fully. This being said, and for this reason, I do try to restrict the number of long haul flights I take to one or less a year. I also try to(and have been for years) do every big and small thing I can to otherwise reduce my carbon footprint. I am a vegetarian. I only eat organic foods. I recycle, recycle, recycle and don't even get into reuse. Suffice to say, I have been using reusable grocery bags since the early 1990s. I live in a location selected so that I can walk to work and drive less than 4,000 miles per year. I have energy efficient appliances and a programed thermostat. I only household paper products that are recycled. My garbage bags are either biodegradable or made from recycled plastic. I exclusively buy eco-friendly cleaners and detergents. I donate everything of use that I am getting rid of or replacing so that it might have another life with someone else instead of making it to the dump.

So yes, even some of us divers are concerned about the environment and we do everything in our power to try to offset our evil carbon footprint ways even if this means more money to help subsidize a more environmentally friendly option. And no, I am not a "diving elite".

[uwfan]

Anyone REALLY sincerely concerned about the environment would look in the mirror and calculate their own personal 'carbon-footprint' based on their standard of living and their diving trips. How much carbon is emitted on a flight, say, from NYC to the Maldives ? ...or Wakatobi ? How much carbon is emitted just jetting/shipping in all the supplies needed to keep a remote dive resort like Wakatobi running, and ready for tourist divers?

And some of us do struggle with this everyday. I am actually VERY conflicted about how much of a carbon footprint I leave in order to enjoy my dive trips. I haveeven assessed whether or not it is worth it but, at the end of the day, travel and diving are two activities I love too much to give up fully. This being said, and for this reason, I do try to restrict the number of long haul flights I take to one or less a year. I also try to(and have been for years) do every big and small thing I can to otherwise reduce my carbon footprint. I am a vegetarian. I only eat organic foods. I recycle, recycle, recycle and don't even get into reuse. Suffice to say, I have been using reusable grocery bags since the early 1990s. I live in a location selected so that I can walk to work and drive less than 4,000 miles per year. I have energy efficient appliances and a programed thermostat. I only household paper products that are recycled. My garbage bags are either biodegradable or made from recycled plastic. I exclusively buy eco-friendly cleaners and detergents. I donate everything of use that I am getting rid of or replacing so that it might have another life with someone else instead of making it to the dump.

So yes, even some of us divers are concerned about the environment and we do everything in our power to try to offset our evil carbon footprint ways even if this means more money to help subsidize a more environmentally friendly option. And no, I am not a "diving elite".

I have not been so determined in analyzing my carbon footprint. I'm sure I eat way too many microwaves, could take the bus to work (16 miles away this year instead of less than a mile last year), and do not focus much on what kind of cleaners and detergents I use - I just want it to work.

I teach, and thus my income is certainly not "elite" status. This is part of why I am only now returning to diving after 12 years away. I am aware of our earth's problems - I lived a school year in China and know first hand what truly polluted air is like but I just can't get so fussed about things like organic foods and biodegradable garbage bags. I eat what's available and is affordable for me. I also don't use the huge garbage bags unless I'm bagging up leaves in the fall, I reuse the grocery bags I get at the grocery store or bags that I got purchasing something else. I could do more, but at the end of the day of pouring energy into the students at my school, I have other priorities.

As for a little extra charge for fuel, if I'm having to pay more for fuel in the tank of my car, I expect to pay a fuel charge when someone is trying to keep their head above water running a business that is part of my vacation. If its possible to make the charge go away with a reasonable alternative, I'm all for it!

[cmt489]

I could do more, but at the end of the day of pouring energy into the students at my school, I have other priorities.

Take heart uwfan. Once you get into the habit of a few eco-friendly practices it is really easy and does not take much energy at all. As well, the reusing and donating route actually saves you money in the long run by both not having to replace disposable items all the time and getting tax receipts for many other items!

[BubbleBoy]

The price of petrol has definitely changed my attitude about things lately. My idea of a dream vehicle has gone from a Ferrari to this:



Hey, its still Italian and fairly peppy too.

Unfortunately we Divers do engage in an energy intensive sport. For most of us, there is a lot of flying, driving, and boating involved getting to the really good dive sites. I plan to do more local diving this season to work on my training and skills. That will hopefully make the few long distance trips that I take even more enjoyable.

[Parrotman]

Being in retail, I fully understand the need to pass cost on to the consumer. What I do not like is the "surcharge" bit. It's almost like someone is saying " I know I am taking advantage of you by charging you more so I will blame it on gas prices" Sorry but in my opinion if your going to charge more then just charge more. Raise the prices on the trip and be done with it. I went on a liveaboard trip earlier this year and they pulled that on me. Lets see, you paid in full for the trip but I want more money so we will have a "surcharge" Humph!!! Set a price and stick to it. On future trips raise the price but this business of increasing prices after the fact and using the "surcharge" tactic is a load. Again, just my opinion....

If I tried to pull something like that in my business, I would be going out of business in a hurry. Divers put up with this because they are limited to the dive ops that will take them where they want to go. I guarentee you that none of the dive ops on Bonaire are advertising one price for boat dives and then charging you a "surcharge" before they let you on the boat.

As for a carbon footprint... although I recycle, drive a fuel efficient car, have an energy efficient house, most of which I do because it is cost effective, when I look at all of these politicians running around in their limos and these presidential candidates flitting around the country in jumbo jets that are only being used to transport themselves and their staffs. When I see these enormus cruise ships cruising around the ocean carrying thousands of passengers and dumping their sewage into the ocean that I dive in I can't say as I feel particulary guilty about the carbon foot print that I leave when I go diving...


Sheesh! do I have a hair up my *ss today or what? :-)