63 replies to this topic

[georoc01]

George the fuel surcharge for Australia was on the liveaboard's website...I however failed to post it properly in the trip details.

However all liveaboards have had fuel surcharges for well over the past year. As for raising rates it would be nice to have a fixed price but what? Dive operators no more have a crystal ball to see 6 or 12 months out anymore so than you and I do.

And while you can search airfares online and make an instant decision and purchase you can't search dive trips online and make the same instant decision. And lord knows I don't want them to increase the rate just cuz a bunch of people are booking the trip like the airlines do. No do I want to double check the price everytime someone wants to sign up for a trip and then hope they can transact fast enough to keep that same price.

As for the inevitability of fuel surcharges I think its safe to say we are all resigned to them NOW. However were you as resigned to them 6 months ago? Or 12 months ago? On the other hand...would you argue that fuel has not gone up over the past 6 or 12 months?

I guess I just don't see any feasible way for liveaboards to determine the price of a trip with a variable as extreme as fuel as far out as divers want to book packages.

You are correct that prices keep going up...but the true volitility is HOW MUCH not whether they go up or down.

However if anyone has a formula or suggestions then I'm sure all the liveaboards would love to know what it is or how they can improve service in this arena while not pricing themselves out of business or going out of business.

If its such a standard operating method, why doesn't resorts like Divi Flamingo when we were doing 3 boat dives a day have such a surcharge on their dive trips? Or in Cozumel, where virtually all of the diving is done off by boat? They are just as subject to fuel charges impacting the cost of their business. Why don't cruise ships?

To me, it still seems to be a way for the operator to keep the advertised prices down and then hit the customer with it at the time of the trip. As far as the extra bag fees go, I look at that similar to add on charges for Nitrox. Not everyone checks bags, so you are basically making it an option. The fuel surcharge OTOH hits everyone. There is no choice there.

I remember having this conversation after we left the boat in Australia. We just paid a surcharge to cover the gas. We tip the crew which allows the operator to pay them less money to work there. So what exactly did our money go to that we paid for the trip? Basically, the cost of owning and maintaining the boat, the food, their admin fees and their taxes to operate the business.

Clearly these charges are real and are here to stay. But when it comes to booking a liveaboard vs another trip many months out, it does become a factor in deciding how to spend our travel dollar.

[techintime]

CMT 489, Weescot,
I can not debate beautiful women. I humbly surrender.

[tgnjim]

WOW! What great feedback! But I have to say that the majority was a bit of bitching & moaning about additional fuel costs. But there were several posts about causes of the problem, & one on negating the problem.

How about suggestions for resolution of the problem? Again I reiterate my concern about purchasing the low cost higher sulpher content fuel. I have not had time to research the impact that this would cause on the environment, but my gut instinct tells me that this is not a good thing for our planet.

Currently, I am putting together a proposal for a 12,000 sq.ft. home with another 4,500 sq.ft. of support buildings. This is a spec home, & the clients are looking at a goal of being 80% renewable. We are looking at geothermal, Photovoltaic, hydro-eletric, possible wind power, & Energy conservation / green building tecnoligy. It is an exciting project! The investors in this project are convinced that such a green home will have a possitive value.

Even so, it is the small steps that make the journey. I know that I have perchased Carbon offsets for previous flights, but I am not sure that this is the right eway o go.

Jim

[BubbleBoy]

One of the problems with trying to roll the cost of fuel into the base price of the trip is that fuel prices are changing so rapidly. Most people book trips well in advance, so the cost of fuel at the time of booking may not be the price when the trip actually occurs. We've seen a 40% rise in fuel costs in the last 3 months. The only way for the operator to hedge that exposure would be to purchase the fuel in advance and store it until the trip occurs. That's somewhat impractical for most operators.

What we are learning in this latest round of fuel price dynamics is that volatility in oil prices can be just as problematic as the absolute price level itself. Even though the current price is unattractive, uncertainty of future prices is even more difficult to deal with. If you buy a new car today, there is a high probability that the cost of fuel to run it over its useful life will exceed the cost of the car.

Edited by BubbleBoy, 04 June 2008 - 06:31 AM.

[weescot]

CMT 489, Weescot,
I can not debate beautiful women. I humbly surrender.

already? I was cheering you on... Debating...flirting??? It's the same thing.

Que

...often charm is chaff when outsmarted. But always a welcome and honourable surrender

[pmarie]

I have been out with two separate operators that do charge a fuel surcharge, a modest $5.00 when going to a site that is 20-30 minutes outside the "typical" dive sites. I was feeling really pissy about it at first but after thinking it through I have not had a real problem with this since if it were my business I would want to offset the additonal cost and gallons used to get to the sites that are further out.

[tgnjim]

Just an interesting quote I ran across while reading tonight, "Sudden falls can come to communities that know to little history or that have furnished thier minds with easy one-note propoganda in place of the true complexity and terrible beauty of the storied past"

I have been speaking about the environment a lot lately with friends & associates. I am amazed bythe diversity of responses that I am hearing. Sheena is absolutely right that it is a matter of who you choose to believe, & personally I believe in nothing absolutely but my own observations. Still, it is a fact that the US consumes a disproportionate amount of energy compared to the rest of the world. So shouldn't we take the lead in providing a solution to the problem? We're not taking the lead in anything else presently, other than...well I won't go there. But it is not our government that will make this happen. It is the grass roots movements that will take hold & make a change. I spoke today with a friend who I first met doing a small Straw Bale home project many years ago. She is speaking to congress next week to promote legislsation to promote this technology as a very renewable alternative to home building. Small groups, individual ideas can make a difference!

Jim

[uwfan]

As to higher sulphur content of the fuel and what it would do to the environment (or potentially do) I wish I knew. What I do know is that the "lake" near the school where I worked in China was a known dumping ground for who knows what - blacker than black and no one in their right mind even thought of dipping their big toe in it. I'm not totally against the higher sulphur content, but that lake keeps coming back into my mind and giving me pause....

[nice-diver]

When your scuba gear was delivered to the dive shop, they paid a fuel surcharge. For your jc.penny couch that you had delivered to your house, you paid a fuel surcharge. When you had that freight delivery come to your work with supplies to do your job, your boss paid a fuel surcharge.

For a business to compete, they have to lower their prices to get your business; you can't stay in business if you don't find a way to offset required expenses. Everyone pays them directly and indirectly. Bummer about finding out about them standing on the dock trying to board the boat, I would not want to be surprised like that, my paycheck is gone before the next payday.

[weescot]

.. well, yesterday, the BBC reported petrol in some parts of UK has reached $18 a gallon...

http://news.bbc.co.u...von/7456458.stm

the price driven up by supply issues due to fuel protests. Normally it is "only" around $10.15... No wonder Europe is going back to pedal power...

[shadragon]

Easy answer. Venezuelan Dive Trips. Right on the southern Caribbean, warm and fairly cheap. Gas there is currently $0.05 a liter or $0.19 a gallon.

As for surrender, what the heck is that???

[secretsea18]

There are MANY liveaboard boat operators that do not add these sorts of surcharges. so it is NOT a worldwide phenomenon. They require payment in advance, and once paid, accept that as payment in full, without adding in any other fees of this nature (ie. for fuel) at the last minute. My last liveaboard trip, in April, was to the Andaman Islands in India. No fuel surcharges at all, much less at the last minute.

[georoc01]

How about a fuel surcharge for Speeding tickets?

http://news.yahoo.co...vernmentoffbeat

[Racer184]

.....US consumes a disproportionate amount of energy ....

And the USA manufactures a "disproportionate" amount of the worlds goods (with quite strict worker safety, worker benefits and pollution laws)
And the USA produces a "disproportionate" amount of the world's food under quite strict and expensive regulations.
And the USA produces a "disproportionate" amount of medical technology
And the USA produces a "disproportionate" amount of education to citizens of foreign countries.