40 replies to this topic

[divzac]

If I may quote the Wench...

Rules for Posting a Reply:

This type of topic will involve a variety of differing opinions and as previously stated NO ANSWER is Right or Wrong. However we will mandate per our site rules that ALL RESPONSES BE RESPECTFUL AND POLITE AND KIND. The idea is to LEARN from this experience and discussion(s) and not 'showcase a reply so we look good', 'try to be hurtful' or even play 'armchair quarterback after the fact'.

Please keep in mind your initial response as to WHAT WE WOULD DO may change after ongoing discussion. This is most likely good. However to affect that change a variety of opinions will need to be presented which means a variety of options for solutions. Please consider all choices/options as VALID and do not dismiss them simply because they are not what you would have done. The truth is...no one knows what they would really do UNLESS THEY WERE ACTUALLY THE ONE IN THE SITUATION. And since we do not have a real hidden camera to film you we will rely on your honesty in your replies.

[scubadork]

There is a difference between saying "I would do nothing" and "I would do nothing and go play scuba police and report him to the DM because offering any assistance is tantamount to acting as an instructor and that's not my job" It is perfectly ok to ignore the issue and offer no assistance but to chastise those that are willing to offer some assistance is, in my opinion, not right. Some of the more advanced divers seem to forget what it was like to be a beginning diver or less skilled diver and are really quick with the derision of those without the same skill set.

Edited by cmt489, 19 February 2009 - 08:18 PM.
To comply with our TOS

[cmt489]

In addition to the Rules for Posting that Kamala included with this thread, I would also draw everyone's attention to our Terms of Service.


Specifically, please see term #1:

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SingleDivers.com is a place for all members to have fun! we'll all have fun because we are about meeting other singles and diving. This is a place to learn about each other. This is a place to learn about new and exciting places to dive. This is a place to learn more about diving. This is a place to express yourself. We strongly believe in the free exchange of ideas. Keep in mind; you need to express those ideas in a way that does not personally attack another member nor the community nor the entity of SingleDivers.com. We want everyone to have fun but respectful posts, both you and those with whom you disagree. Be courteous to your fellow members. Flaming is never acceptable. The best way to deal with trolls is to ignore them or use the report post button which goes directly to the Administrators or pm a moderator.

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[scubadork]

I call it how I see it.... and it's obvious that some posters have such superior dive skills that they do not feel the need to share that knowledge because it isn't his job.

[cmt489]

I call it how I see it.... and it's obvious that some posters have such superior dive skills that they do not feel the need to share that knowledge because it isn't his job.

Please, feel free to "call it as you see it" so long as it in a respectful manner that does not personally attack any member of this site. While we encourage debate, we will not tolerate disrespectful, personal attacks.

[Scubatooth]

I fall into the "call it like i see it " on a boat because if something bad were to happen i would end up in the middle of it because of my certification even though i technically dont have a duty to act as im not on duty, but im not gonna stand by and watch someone get hurt badly if i can help it, but my help will be limited due to not wanting to get charged with "practicing medicine w/o a license"

[scubafanatic]

I call it how I see it.... and it's obvious that some posters have such superior dive skills that they do not feel the need to share that knowledge because it isn't his job.

...well, SDM makes a good observation and has a very reasonable position/viewpoint...it's not arrogance, it's common sense in this age of lawsuits, unfortunately. Honestly, I can't say I have a 'fixed' policy on this issue....what I'd do depends on the specifics. For what it's worth, I've lost track of the number of times I've helped fellow divers out by loaning out tanks...regs....computers......lots of assorted spare parts...and I've NEVER done a trip where one or more fellow divers haven't at least taken a dip into my spare parts bin at a minimum.....to save-a-dive or save-a-dive-trip...have even loaned stuff to 'Wenchie' !

....as far as a fellow diver's bouyancy 'issues', one incident comes to mind a few years back on the Turks & Caicos Explorer when I came to the rescue of a very elderly lady......who was very frail/whispy of physique and IMHO, had long ago passed the point of being an independent diver....a bubble-headed blonde (no offense Wenchie! named "Barbie", of all things...how fitting. ...anyway, on one dive I happen to be trailing the group behind Barbie and I notice she's mindlessly sinking into the abyss (the walls there are 1 1/2 miles deep!)...she was completely focused on taking photos of the 'wall', is ignoring her depth, and going DOWN ! ...well, I make an executive decision and begin a rapid downward intercept course towards Barbie and catch up to her as she's crossing 130 ft. deep, and I get to her at the exact same moment the boat DM does...so we'd both spotted the problem.....after the dive he thanked me for stepping in.....and for the rest of the trip the boat assigned her a personal DM who literally held her hand on each dive. Her husband was widely regarded by all the guests and the crew as well as a big loser and was very unpopular.....he was by far the worst bouyancy control of any UW photographer I've ever seen and reminded us of 'Conan The Destroyer' as he laid down a continual path of destruction across the reefs.....it was ugly watching him snag a giant barrel sponge, maybe centuries old, get torn loose and tumble down the wall into the abyss after he got his camera gear caught up on the reef, and instead of carefully untangling it, just yanked on it until the sponge gave way and broke off ! ...in a sad way it was kinda funny once when after dinner, he asked the divers in the room if anyone wanted to see his latest UW photos, and the room went dead silent...you could literally hear a pin drop...everyone had seen how he dove/operated.

...anyway, I guess I'm probably foolishly exposing myself to liability sometimes, and maybe I have too much faith that a fellow diver would ever 'turn-on-me' with respect to offering assistance...hopefully I can strike the right balance somehow.

Karl

[Diverbrian]

...well, SDM makes a good observation and has a very reasonable position/viewpoint...it's not arrogance, it's common sense in this age of lawsuits, unfortunately. Honestly, I can't say I have a 'fixed' policy on this issue....what I'd do depends on the specifics. For what it's worth, I've lost track of the number of times I've helped fellow divers out by loaning out tanks...regs....computers......lots of assorted spare parts...and I've NEVER done a trip where one or more fellow divers haven't at least taken a dip into my spare parts bin at a minimum.....to save-a-dive or save-a-dive-trip...have even loaned stuff to 'Wenchie' !

....as far as a fellow diver's bouyancy 'issues', one incident comes to mind a few years back on the Turks & Caicos Explorer when I came to the rescue of a very elderly lady......who was very frail/whispy of physique and IMHO, had long ago passed the point of being an independent diver....a bubble-headed blonde (no offense Wenchie! named "Barbie", of all things...how fitting. ...anyway, on one dive I happen to be trailing the group behind Barbie and I notice she's mindlessly sinking into the abyss (the walls there are 1 1/2 miles deep!)...she was completely focused on taking photos of the 'wall', is ignoring her depth, and going DOWN ! ...well, I make an executive decision and begin a rapid downward intercept course towards Barbie and catch up to her as she's crossing 130 ft. deep, and I get to her at the exact same moment the boat DM does...so we'd both spotted the problem.....after the dive he thanked me for stepping in.....and for the rest of the trip the boat assigned her a personal DM who literally held her hand on each dive. Her husband was widely regarded by all the guests and the crew as well as a big loser and was very unpopular.....he was by far the worst bouyancy control of any UW photographer I've ever seen and reminded us of 'Conan The Destroyer' as he laid down a continual path of destruction across the reefs.....it was ugly watching him snag a giant barrel sponge, maybe centuries old, get torn loose and tumble down the wall into the abyss after he got his camera gear caught up on the reef, and instead of carefully untangling it, just yanked on it until the sponge gave way and broke off ! ...in a sad way it was kinda funny once when after dinner, he asked the divers in the room if anyone wanted to see his latest UW photos, and the room went dead silent...you could literally hear a pin drop...everyone had seen how he dove/operated.

...anyway, I guess I'm probably foolishly exposing myself to liability sometimes, and maybe I have too much faith that a fellow diver would ever 'turn-on-me' with respect to offering assistance...hopefully I can strike the right balance somehow.

Karl

I am another person with a save-a-dive trip that my dive buddies have nick-named the "portable dive store". I have yet to go diving and not use it to loan parts to someone or use it myself.

Things don't change in the Turks and Caicos. My first warm water trip was down there. I was a DiveCon Candidate then and left the rescues to the crew because they were good at them. I did have a couple of drinks with the boat staff every night of that trip though. There was constant grousing about one diver who had qualified many years ago, but had never dove a newer bouyancy compensator. He never did get the hang of adjusting his buoyancy with it. As the walls there are an abyss, the staff nearly lost him a couple of times when he overvented (in general he was not anticipating his buoyancy changes). The last time on the trip that he did that, the instructor let him go to the surface quickly as he had the rest of his charges to worry about the guy was at least safe on the surface.

I have been in similar positions between now and then. I have always attempted to help my fellow divers in the water when I can.

[techintime]

I'm surprised that no one has stated something pretty obvious here...If you try to intervene underwater, you are going to have a real hard time communicating to the diver with bouancy control problems. If his bouancy is lacking, what is the likelyhood that you are going to be able to intervene and fix it with some unsolicited, impromptu instruction with the limited communication underwater. Your more likely to confuse the diver even further and if you touch their equipment (to say...demonstrate proper addition of air to the BC) you may end up in a tussle or even panic the diver. If I had a slate I might tell his buddy to take him back to the boat, or I might follow him up on one of his cycles to the surface (assuming it could be done safely) and ask if he would like some help getting his bouancy straight, but other than that I don't think that their is much you can do (from the bottom) in this situation without making the situation worse.

[WreckWench]

Hey gang...discussion on a new scenario is HERE contributed by DiverBrian.

If you have ideas for your own "What Would You Do" please send them to us including the scenario and possible options.

[WreckWench]

I call it how I see it.... and it's obvious that some posters have such superior dive skills that they do not feel the need to share that knowledge because it isn't his job.

Scubadork due to travel I have not had a chance to respond to your direct concern as well as clarify for our members any concerns they may have regarding this assertation.

First let me say that it is EVERY DIVER'S responsibility to be responsible for themselves in and out of the water. Second it is NOT someone's elses responsibility to share/teach/educate unless they desire to do so or they are paid to do so of course.

However we have an extraordianary calibre of members who readily share information with others and many of these are VERY SEASONED and EXPERIENCED and PROFESSIONAL divers.

However they expect that while everyone may not agree with their opinions they know that on THIS SITE they will be allowed and encouraged to give their opinions even if they differ especially FOR THAT VERY REASON so that we'll have more viewpoints to consider. And they also know that ALL responses regardless of the content will be respectful, diligently thought out and KIND.

If replies are NOT of this nature they are usually discredited accordingly, ignored and/or moderated if too radical/excessive to comply with our TOS. And yet despite the occasional reply that does not adhere to these dictates...our outstanding members STILL take their time to share, offer viewpoints, and help others. We have the most AMAZING MEMBERS!

And while this topic took several strange turns...even in that journey we've had a chance to showcase the tenets that make this site so different from others. Kamala