46 replies to this topic

[BeachJunkie]

Hello everyone,
Well, I'm back on the "scuba would be an awesome career" kick. The thread about Zach getting a job on the spree prompted me to start looking at it again. As most of you know, I'll be leaving the military in a few months and starting fresh. I am planning on going to FKCC in Key West for the Diving Business and Technology degree along with majoring in criminal justice and attending the police academy. I would LOVE to make a living diving. So I pose this question...

You have no financial obligations, you have plenty of money saved up, you're currently unemployed, have no family responsibilities. Would you move to a sweet dive destination for 3-6 months to do a dive internship?

The reason I am thinking about doing an IDC instead of the college route is, I still have to pay for the courses out of pocket and they take an entire semester to complete. I mean seriously... 5 months on AOW?!?! Yes, I would definitely grasp the material but it is twice a week in the evening. I could get the same training over a weekend for 25 dollars more than the college is charging. I could start school a semester late and do the IDC. Another benefit to this over the college route is, I would be working at a resort with real customers and a real experience in the dive business. Hands on experience with diving every day as opposed to classroom at night and the occasional dive on the weekend. Also, this way I would know for sure if I wanted to make diving a career. It would give me a chance to get around it and see if I would like the work. If not, I've still got some great training, a TON of dives and the ability to be a great buddy and maybe teach on the side of whatever career I do end up going with. Just shooting out some thoughts that are running through my head.

What do you think? Given the situation, would it be worth my time/money? What would you do?

[divzac]

It would appear that you have thought about this (1) and asked for another opinion (2) which are both good starts imho. It has been my experience that putting my eggs in 2 or 3 baskets has been good when it involves the dive industry. I have been a captain / instructor full time and part time but I always have kept my "day job" ...at least on the back burner. I have found that it is possible to follow many dreams along the way and am happy that I can always count on diversity when it comes to employment. I live in the South florida area which may or may not matter. I do not like to give advice but prefer to stick to my own experience ........... however..... for what it's worth DON'T FORGET to go to college!

[ScubaPunk]

Absolutely do it! You need to grab those types of opportunities whenever they present themselves. You may not get another chance. It sounds to me like you've already made up your mind.

[shadragon]

How do you make a million in the dive business?

Start with two million and wait a year...

I am with Zach on this one. Keeping a day job while you train and establish yourself is sensible. Only other option is to go for a commercial dive course. Serious cash, but more exposure to danger.

[BeachJunkie]

Thanks for the suggestions Zach. Yes, I know the old addage about making a living in scuba. I've been reading through a bazillion threads about being an instructor and making a living. I was more gearing the question toward "would you take a semester off school to do an IDC?". I want to make sure I have a backup plan. Even if I didn't make a lifetime career in diving I think it would be one of those things where for the time I did it, it would be looked upon favourably or as "the best time of my life" type deal. I still plan on going to school. I worked too hard to not use my GI Bill. I'm just curious what others would do in my position. Thanks for the input so far.

[Capn Jack]

Thanks for the suggestions Zach. Yes, I know the old addage about making a living in scuba. I've been reading through a bazillion threads about being an instructor and making a living. I was more gearing the question toward "would you take a semester off school to do an IDC?". I want to make sure I have a backup plan. Even if I didn't make a lifetime career in diving I think it would be one of those things where for the time I did it, it would be looked upon favourably or as "the best time of my life" type deal. I still plan on going to school. I worked too hard to not use my GI Bill. I'm just curious what others would do in my position. Thanks for the input so far.

Not sure how the IRS rules read now, but when I left active duty and got the FAA ratings / certifications to make me competitive for an airline job - and paid for with my GI benefits - it was deductible. Check it out.

I also third the motion on day job.

One thing I don't know anything about but I'll throw in mi dos pesos anyway - if you're looking at Law Enforcement, I think I'd steer my formal education that direction. A degree in dive business doesn't sound like a good cost/benefit trade.

As far as your root question - I'd get my IDC knocked out as early as possible - it makes you far more employable around a dive op than anything else you're heading for - that way you could keep diving at little cost, and maybe even make a few shekels while you're working on your degree.

[Quero]

Advice from me may appear biased in that I left a career in education to work in the dive industry as an instructor
But anyway....

This is what I am hearing from you:

1) You intend to do an IDC in the future
2) You intend to do a higher-education degree/police academy in the near future
3) The cost of doing the dive training through your college does not represent a significant monetary savings over doing it elsewhere
4) The time investment in doing your dive training through your college is more onerous than if you do it elsewhere
5) You can defer your college enrollment for a semester

Sounds like all your points lead to one conclusion: Go Pro!

FWIW, I recently had a young ex NY cop (retired on disability) come over to Thailand for 3 months to do what you are thinking of. He was an OW diver with maybe 100 dives when he came to me. We did AOW, Nitrox, Rescue, DM together, and then I introduced him to a few Course Directors here (we have at least half a dozen and IEs 11 of 12 months every year). He decided which IDC to attend and became an instructor. Then he went back to New York to take care of things there. If you had 6 months, you could do the same thing, but actually work for a few months afterwards.

[BeachJunkie]

I do like the idea of being able to actually make some money diving while in college. Maybe even spend my summers as an Instructor or DM. I've been out of school for almost 8 years now, whats one more semester if I'm still gaining experience and doing something I love right? I'm just afraid that if I do the IDC, I'll sign on to keep working there and do my MSDT and end up not going to school haha. I don't know why I bother worrying about this kind of stuff before its even time to...

Anyone ever heard or had any experience with Neptunes Dive College in Manzanillo, Mexico? They seem to be my best option. They still give college credit for the diving classes, you actually get paid through the internship (once you reach DM) and you get hands on experience unlike the FKCC course. I looked at a few other options in Thailand but they were much more expensive.

Thanks everyone for your input so far. I know I sound like I've already made up my mind (honestly I kind of have) but I just want to get all the opinions and suggestions I can before I take the leap!

[WreckWench]

BeachJunkie this is a great thread/topic and one I"m sure MANY people will be reading with similar intentions to yourself. I will post more later but I will say this...

"Making a living in the diving industry" is a misnomer. You change your living and you adapt your lifestyle to that of self imposed minimums/limits/doing without so you can DIVE, be around DIVING, and try to SURVIVE doing what you love! Not too different in some respects from the military...LOL!

If you have a gainful career and/or have retired well off...then diving is easy and you can more readily teach on the side for the fun of it or for some material gain and great stress release.

If you are a good engine mechanic, can 'fix anything', can drive a boat (legally aka a capt's license of which there are many types and a couple of thousand of bucks to get that/those license(s), can invest $3k or more into the courses you'll need to take to get your instructor rating, then add insurance of approx $600 a year on top of that so you can actively teach, are good with people then you may find a dive operator to hire you for minimum type pay and you can 'pay for the necessary experience/credibility' you'll need for further options in the dive industry.

And you need to think about what those options are...because what you choose determines how you proceed.

Do you want to own a dive shop?
Do you just want to teach?
How much time can you devote to teaching? Can you teach enough hours and at what pay to pay what expenses?
Do you just want to drive a boat and dive on the side?
Do you want to work for a dive company selling their merchandise?

Or do you want a real career in say law enforcement, save and invest well so you can retire early and THEN have a second career in diving where you can more readily teach when you want, travel when you want etc. If that is the case...get as many things done as you can now ie. schooling, certifications, get experience where you can and then when the time comes...seize the opportunities where you can AFTER you have secured a career and a retirement future.

[Victoria]

Sam, I see where the degree track at FKCC would be rather beneficial, if time consuming. But I want to offer my 2psi that's entirely based in my own experience.

Before I start this rambling little story, I'll grant up front that you've got far more focus and experience than I did when I was trying to decide on an educational path at 18...

I took a similar route to the FKCC idea, only with frozen water. I was living in Colorado, and opted to go into a program at Colorado Mountain College (CMC... affectionately known as See Me Ski by the locals...) The program I entered resulted in a degree in Marketing, which I completed waaaayy back in 1985. However, I shot myself in the foot in a huge way, in that while the degree is Marketing, and I had all of the Business/Marketing/Management/Supervision/ Advertising/Accounting/Business Law classes that one would expect for a business-type degree... the official name of the program was Ski Business. It was a very interesting program, developed to meld skiing and business (for in many instances in the ski industry the execs know very well one, or the other, but rarely both...) But a ton of my classes were so narrowly focused on the ski industry that they did me absolutely NO good outside of a resort town in the Rockies! Ski goods design? Ski industry market research? Ski boot fitting?!?! Ski goods purchasing and merchandising???? Hello!!! There were more, but those are sufficient to make the point.

Having said all of that, we all know that the dive industry is not exactly geographically restricted! What I'm getting at here is that (solely from my weird perspective) you will get more bang for your buck, and substantially more effectiveness from your educational efforts, if you concentrate your college efforts on the CJ degree, and go through the IDC separate from college. The net effect will be that you'll be prepared for both the dive industry and law enforcement. But I perceive that you'll benefit far more from the IDC and internship opportunities in the dive industry than protracted class work. Save your butt for those perennially uncomfortable classroom chair hours in CJ classes............. Having just finished another four years in college getting another degree, I can attest to the fact that your a$$ will thank you...I'm worried that mine may never fully recover.....

[BeachJunkie]

I understand that "making a living" is all relative to what you consider a "living". There are people in the states who "make a living" at wal-mart making 7.50-10.00 bucks an hour. MANY people wouldn't consider that a living. But they get by and lead happy lives. Now imagine making the same money DIVING! The scenery would be infinitely better and the job would be too. Thats pretty much the reason for my draw towards this possibility. But the responsible part of me says to do as WW suggested and do the IDC, take classes, gain experience, and work through a career in law enforcement then retire and do diving. I'm still torn as to what I will do and I guess we will see which one wins out. But, again, I'm off topic.

It seems that everyone thinks that the IDC route is the way to go and save the college for a "normal" degree. Makes sense in more ways than one I guess. Thanks for the input. Anyone heard anything about the place I mentioned or know anything about Manzanillo? Do you have any suggestions on a place to do an IDC other than Neptunes? I'm all ears. It'll give me something to research over here while I sit in the TOC waiting to go out and get rained on. Thanks again everyone for the input!

[WreckWench]

making 7.50-10.00 bucks an hour. MANY people wouldn't consider that a living. But they get by and lead happy lives. Now imagine making the same money DIVING! The scenery would be infinitely better and the job would be too. Thats pretty much the reason for my draw towards this possibility.

One injury...one dcs hit...one mishap and you have what left over? What THEN are your options?

And what do you do when you retire???

Of course from where you stand now...I'm sure it looks pretty good!

[BeachJunkie]

One injury...one dcs hit...one mishap and you have what left over? What THEN are your options?

And what do you do when you retire???

Of course from where you stand now...I'm sure it looks pretty good!

Ahhh of course... there ya go, thinking LOGICALLY and MATURELY haha. Who does that? I completely understand where you're comming from. Thats the reason for the backup plan and additional training and experience that you mentioned. What if I become a cop and get shot in the face before I can retire and become a diver? What if I get hit by a car during a traffic stop and can't be a cop anymore or dive. Hell, what if I hit an IED tomorrow? All kinds of what if's? I will certainly look into as many options as possible. Especially since Uncle Sam will be picking up the tab. Just because I don't do the diving degree doesn't mean I won't pick up some of the other certs they offer like Boat Captain, UW Photo, Equipment Repair, Engine theory, etc. I'm hoping to set myself up to be able to do both. Keep the suggestions comming!!

[WreckWench]

But the responsible part of me says to do as WW suggested and do the IDC, take classes, gain experience, and work through a career in law enforcement then retire and do diving.

BE STRONG GRASSHOPPER...listen to people who have DONE what you are thinking of doing...


that includes Divzac, Quero, Capn Jack and myself. Do you think Quero would be able to run the TYPE of organization she runs if she didn't have the EXPERIENCE she has from her previous education? Nope...it takes a lot more than just ability to have a career/job in diving and make any money at it. You have to be smarter than the next guy, figure out how to get NEW people into diving as the current ones are drying up faster than they are being replaced, differentiate yourself in such a way that people choose YOU vs the other guy/gal and then do all of the above CONSISTENTLY.

Let me illustrate. SD.com has to fill every trip it runs or it will not survive. That means I have to score homeruns on every trip which means I have to have a crystal ball 12+ more months in advance knowing where people will want to dive and then BANKING on the fact that they will when I invest thousands of dollars in trip deposits etc.

And that is before...skyrocking fuel prices, unemployment issues, bad economy in general. So if you want to work in the dive industry to gain experience learning from OPM....other people's mistakes...you are welcome to work for me as an internship and I'll teach you everything I know!

And that plus a buck will get you a cheap cup of coffee!

Oh yeah....take LOTS of marketing classes as your electives and general biz courses while doing your CJ course work. It will help in that endeavor AND it will help you with your future dive intentions.

[WreckWench]

One injury...one dcs hit...one mishap and you have what left over? What THEN are your options?

And what do you do when you retire???

Of course from where you stand now...I'm sure it looks pretty good!

Ahhh of course... there ya go, thinking LOGICALLY and MATURELY haha. Who does that?

OLD PEOPLE OR PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T DO THE FIRST TIME AND NOW WISH THEY HAD!

I completely understand where you're comming from. Thats the reason for the backup plan and additional training and experience that you mentioned. What if I become a cop and get shot in the face before I can retire and become a diver? What if I get hit by a car during a traffic stop and can't be a cop anymore or dive. Hell, what if I hit an IED tomorrow? All kinds of what if's? I will certainly look into as many options as possible. Especially since Uncle Sam will be picking up the tab. Just because I don't do the diving degree doesn't mean I won't pick up some of the other certs they offer like Boat Captain, UW Photo, Equipment Repair, Engine theory, etc. I'm hoping to set myself up to be able to do both. Keep the suggestions comming!!

We know you get it...that is why you are asking. However since you mentioned it...I wouldn't do the CJ thing to be a cop for the reasons you've mentioned and yes you've accepted the risk from where you are to allow us the priviledge of having these types of conversations in online communities such as this one but then you are a thrill seeker and we can't change our very nature now can we! LOL!!!