46 replies to this topic

[BeachJunkie]

Ok, I've revisited the idea for Thailand and am having trouble figuring out why I ditched the idea haha. The diving there definitely looks INFINITELY better then Manzanillo. WW made an awesome suggestion as to not doing it all in one place in one quick shot. As everyone has said, I am young. And this very well may be the only chance I get to do something like this. Perhaps I'll look into multiple locations for each level of training. It would certainly make for some very diverse training and prepare me much better than sticking to one place through all my training. Plus, I'd get to see a lot more of the world. I will be checking into this option as well.

What do you think would be a good budget for something like this? I'm thinking about 6 months time frame (maybe longer hehe) As much overseas as possible. I'd like to keep it under $20,000. I'm setting that as my limit. It will be diving intensive but, I am a single 25 year old guy, so partying will hopefully be in the mix as well. Given this criteria, what would be your dream destinations for some good dive training? I plan on documenting the whole thing with an infinite number of stories and pictures. Hell, maybe I'll even write a book haha. I'll start a blog or maybe get a section going here on SD for people to live vicariously through my excursions haha.

Lets hear it. Your top 3 destinations for dive training and life experience.

BTW, thank you ALL for the inspirational comments and ideas. Hopefully this will all work out and I'll be able to get some international SD members going!!

[Quero]

Ok, I've revisited the idea for Thailand and am having trouble figuring out why I ditched the idea haha.
<snip>
What do you think would be a good budget for something like this? I'm thinking about 6 months time frame (maybe longer hehe) As much overseas as possible. I'd like to keep it under $20,000.

<snip>

As I just had a guy go from AOW all the way through the IDC here over a period of 3 months, and I was his instructor all the way through divemaster, I can probably figure out roughly what it cost him in terms of training and materials. I can also give you an estimate of living expenses. Your fun money expenditures, equipment purchases, etc. won't be tallied, though!

Give me a day or two and I'll get back to you on costs (this won't be an offer, just a historical view of what it cost one guy who worked with me recently--I don't do package deals, so I can't make that kind of offer anyway). Where are you now in your training? How many dives have you logged? When you're looking at costs, it's important to put in everything. Many schools unfortunately have hidden costs they don't tell you about initially, like certification fees, or purchase of required materials.

As far as Thailand goes, I can say, that while Mermaid's and Aquanauts seem to be fine schools and are upfront in their pricing, Pattaya is the pits for diving. Don't go there! You should come to the Andaman Sea side for the best diving. That's why I'm here and not over there in the Gulf of Thailand, after all!

Q.

Edited by Quero, 31 January 2009 - 07:46 AM.

[BeachJunkie]

Does the versatility (changing and often adverse conditions) of pattaya make it good for training or would I be better off looking at more of a "vacation style" place to do it? I'm comparing three different places in thailand right now and two of them are the ones you mentioned (the other being crystal divers) Is the Andaman a seasonal thing? or can you dive there year round? Any suggestions as to operators to look at in your area (perfect chance for you to plug your shop)?

I know that the basic idea is to get in as much diving and experience underwater as possible but I don't want to get too burnt out on it either. What other things are there to do in the area? Is it a sleepy, relaxed, resort feel or still lively and entertaining?

[WreckWench]

BeachJunkie NOW you are thinking...and it just goes to show there is more than ONE way to skin a cat...er...you know what I mean.

I think you will have LOTS of options and that is good. Take quero up on her info/offer. She has taught for us and did very well. OTWDiver who is an OW to Tech instructor and member of the site has been doing some checking for you about some top notch instructors in the FL area since you mentioned that area as desirable to you. FYI...He said he would do any level of training up to DM but feared SC would NOT be a place you wanted to train :lmao:so has talked to one of his instructors whom he did all of his technical training with but who can do IDC's for new open water instructors...Jeff Loflin in Florida. We'll get you more info if you are interested in this option.

Also Emerald Coast Divers in Fl has an accredited program that does some reimbursement under the GI Bill. Jeff Loflin is getting more info for you on this program as well. Seems they are the ONLY program that the GI Bill will do some partial reimbursement with. (They would reimburse almost all of it, if the course were spread out over a full semester but since it is usually 80 hours...you do not get full repayment. However the school has a number of options in this arena so worth checking into and according to Jeff...it is a very good program.)

So BeachJunkie...the world is your oyster and you can explore a number of options. I'll post more for you once I have it from Jeff Loflin & OTWDiver.

[peterbj7]

I haven't read all of this, just the gist. By all means do it as a bit of fun, as a break from reality. But don't have any illusions about working in the dive industry and doing well. Some do, granted, but you have to be in the right place at the right time. Throughout the world dive operators are going under (excuse the pun!) and people drift into the dive professional world and drift out again a year or two later. Fortunes are lost in the dive industry and very few are made. Have another string to your bow, and then go out and enjoy yourself!

[Quero]

Does the versatility (changing and often adverse conditions) of pattaya make it good for training or would I be better off looking at more of a "vacation style" place to do it? I'm comparing three different places in thailand right now and two of them are the ones you mentioned (the other being crystal divers) Is the Andaman a seasonal thing? or can you dive there year round? Any suggestions as to operators to look at in your area (perfect chance for you to plug your shop)?

I know that the basic idea is to get in as much diving and experience underwater as possible but I don't want to get too burnt out on it either. What other things are there to do in the area? Is it a sleepy, relaxed, resort feel or still lively and entertaining?

Well, you know, there are varying viewpoints. Some people do say that adversity creates challenges that make for a better dive pro. I dunno. I'm not in it to prove anything about how tough I am (plus I'm a girl), so diving in low viz runoff from the Chao Phrya River (that picks up all sorts of effluents from the capital city and dumps them into the Gulf at Pattaya) isn't my idea of what makes me a better DM/Instructor, in terms of environment. Here in our clear waters with tons of coral, we need to make sure our buoyancy is perfect so we don't cloud things up with sand, or worse, kick and damage our big fan corals, so the challenges are different, I'd say, though surely it's more pleasant to deal with challenges like the kind we have in the Andaman than learning to cope with three to five foot viz and hoping you can show your divers the shadow of a fish.

If you're going to spend the time and money to train in Thailand, why go where the diving is second-rate, at best? Just for the challenge of low-viz? You need to come here for that????

As for plugging my own op, I'm "special" in that I refuse to do factory-conveyor type certs. All of my courses are personalized, almost always private. And my DMTs are overprepared for their IDCs. That's the upside of not training at factory shop.

Let's start with my (admittedly very opinionated) view of Gulf of Thailand dive training in general. That other shop you mentioned? They're known as a cert factory of sorts. Again, there are people who will tell you that doing pro-training in a cert factory gives you lots of experience since hundreds of divers get certified WEEKLY through these schools. Yes, you get experience, but very little guidance. You end up being self-taught, and I personally can't figure why you'd pay somebody a fat fee so that you can teach yourself! In the end, it's a purchased cert, even if you are able to perform to spec. Plus the kind of experience you get as a DMT in those places is a whole lot of hauling tanks and washing out gear; as an instructor, it's working with mass-trained open-water students who look like seahorses when they dive they're so overweighted (instructors working with big groups in shallow water are less afraid of students sinking into the abyss than they are of them doing uncontrolled ascents, so they weigh them down). This is the main reason the shops/schools in the Gulf are less expensive than the ones here on the Andaman side. They push students through in the maximum group size allowed by standards and make instructors rush through the curriculum (for example, it's common in the Gulf for instructors to be allowed just thee hours for all of the confined water work). To make courses cheap, something has to give! Over here on the Andaman side, the diving is better, groups are smaller, and the education is a bit more expensive. For example, on the Pro level, my IDC class was only 7 people, while the IE in total was about 80 candidates. My IDC had three different classes and Course Directors represented, and there were a bunch of other schools with candidates as well.

Getting back to my own school, I work one-on-one with my students. My DMTs ace the physics and physiology and decompression theory tests, not because I'm so great, but because together the candidate and I work until we find a way that the material makes sense for him/her. I don't have tons of students coming through, but what we do is quality work, rather than quantity. We learn by the example of doing things carefully and correctly, and not through mere repetition studded with mistakes. My DMTs do nothing that I don't do myself. We haul tanks together. We wash gear together. We take turns leading dives. We debrief A LOT, which is where the real insights come from.

I am not a course director, so I take my DMs around to meet different ones, so they can see who they hit it off with. It's important to do that, and I think it's best to make that decision after talking to the CD, seeing the facilities, even watching some training in action, if possible.

Wow, this got long, but as you can see, there's a whole lot more to it than how much it costs!

And finally, no, the Andaman is not seasonal. The Similans Islands Marine Park is seasonal, but you don't do the kind of training you're looking at out there anyway. We dive year round from Phuket.

[BeachJunkie]

VERY good information Q, thank you! Would you mind PMing me some information about the op that you work with and possibly a link to some sites that I could check? I'm googling and going through some "other" forums but its all rather confusing and not helping much.

[Quero]

VERY good information Q, thank you! Would you mind PMing me some information about the op that you work with and possibly a link to some sites that I could check? I'm googling and going through some "other" forums but its all rather confusing and not helping much.

Oh, BJ, I'm in arrears in my Premier Membership (it's not easy mailing a check from here!), so no PM's for Q till she's paid up! You can reach me at dive(dot)with(dot)marcia(at)gekkoscubadivers(dot)com

[Bubble2Bubble]

Sam,
I would have to agree with Peterbj7, I would go foreword towards a real job and get at least 1 to 2 hundred dives under your belt before attempting a diving career. alot of divers burn-out after there 4th year of diving just for fun, and this will allow for some un-seen medical problems that you might have to show up, not every Body is set-up to do multiple dives over multiple days or even years. So keep that diving career dream alive but have something to fall back on if things dont work out. Take alittle of that extra money your getting and go on a SD trip and or go visit peterjb7 and have a face to face talk with him..and of course going diving.



my 2 psi



Mike

[damselfish]

Can you get stationed in Guam for a little while before you get out? I had the opportunity a long time ago to go to Guam for a year and didn't. I can't now. Too much responsibilites. I'd love to live there and dive that side of the world awhile. ~ D

[BeachJunkie]

No guam for me. I'm stop lossed right now as it is. I get out as soon as I get back to the states. I'd have to re-enlist to do anything like that and even then, I don't know if I could get guam.

[diverdeb]

Definitely take the 6 months or so and live some place amazing. I promise you won't regret it. THEN be sure to go to college and get some kind of degree. Remember, you are much more likely to regret the things you DON'T do rather than the things do. I would give anything if I had done something like that when i was your age. I almost did it anyway about 2 years ago, but life's obligations (that you don't have yet) just wouldn't allow it. DO BOTH!!!! Live the dream for a few months, then get the degree.

[Quero]

Totally agree with Deb and others who say to grab the ring when you've got the chance.

Right now there's an opportunity here on Phuket for me to sail and dive across the Indian Ocean as crew on a boat, food enroute and airfare to get back provided. I can't go! I've got committments to honor! Now if this had come up for one of my kids when they were between important periods of their lives (like between undergrad and grad school for one, or between grad school and opening a business for another, or between college and job for the third) I would have said, "Go! It's a chance in a lifetime!"

However, never would I have encouraged any of them to skip college and go into a career like pro sports (one was an NCAA soccer player), or try to work as a ski instructor, or become a dive instructor and expect it to give them the financial stability they need to start families. Yet two of my kids would love to become DMs, and maybe when they've got the time to spend a couple of months with me here on Phuket, I can help them reach that goal. But not at the expense of a more traditional career. (Now, folks, here I take issue with the repeated use of "real" job and similar phrases in comparison with work in the dive industry. My dive-related job is certainly "real" and I doubt I've ever worked so hard in my life--long, long hours, no weekends, no holidays. Just because it's tourism-related and I work with people who are on vacation doesn't mean I'm on vacation or that I take my work responsibilities any less seriously than I did when I was in my old career!)

Edited by Quero, 31 January 2009 - 10:22 PM.

[BeachJunkie]

I never understood the "real" job statement either. I guess "typical" would be a better adjective. Like everyone has said, I might as well do it while I've got the time and money. I've been out of school for so long right now that an additional 6 months won't really make any difference. I think it will be a fun and interesting part of my life that I'll be able to look back at with fond memories. I still plan to go to school and get my degree. I'm not passing up on that chance. I just thought I'd have a little fun on the way. Plus, who knows, someday maybe I will revisit this as a "career" or hell, who knows. Maybe I'll be one of the lucky few who just happens to fall into the perfect slot. Guess we'll see. I'm still searching through possible centers to take the IDC so if anyone has any suggestions, let me know. I just can't seem to find a place that goes beyond DM or has anything useful on their site. I'm open to all suggestions in all places.

[Quero]

I never understood the "real" job statement either. I guess "typical" would be a better adjective. Like everyone has said, I might as well do it while I've got the time and money. I've been out of school for so long right now that an additional 6 months won't really make any difference. I think it will be a fun and interesting part of my life that I'll be able to look back at with fond memories. I still plan to go to school and get my degree. I'm not passing up on that chance. I just thought I'd have a little fun on the way. Plus, who knows, someday maybe I will revisit this as a "career" or hell, who knows. Maybe I'll be one of the lucky few who just happens to fall into the perfect slot. Guess we'll see. I'm still searching through possible centers to take the IDC so if anyone has any suggestions, let me know. I just can't seem to find a place that goes beyond DM or has anything useful on their site. I'm open to all suggestions in all places.

Write to me at my business address (which I gave you in one of the replies above) and I'll zip you some Phuket IDC info.