44 replies to this topic

[TCdamsel]

I am happy that SD insists on a snark free environment. It is nice here.

Hmmmm, I'm sure with a little tweaking, we can use this to our advantage in our future advertising!

1. SD.com: a snark-free zone!
2. SD.com: we play nice!
3. SD.com: we hate snarks, but love sharks!
4. SD.com: ____________________ (fill in the blank)

THANK YOU Tammy!!!!

[georoc01]

I am a member of another non scuba related board where it gets very viscious, yet twice a year they have get togethers and in person everyone gets along great. So I am thinking that its more the anonymity of the internet that lets people get away with being snarky, as they are most likely not going to meet the people in person.

I think in the case of this board, since most of us also travel together, has something to do with the people being more friendly than that other board, which has no such ties. I find the local sections to be much more friendly. Once again, I have met most of the 'Rocky Mountain Oysters' in person, so its a different environment than in the other forums.

[WreckWench]

Ellens comments were two fold...why are people snarky online and why are they snarky on a dive boat? Its easier to see why they are online but not as much in person. However when you are the proverbial outsider on a boat you will always face pressures not found in other dive group dynamics and its even worse if you breaking into an established group. (You'll notice that if you join our boat wherever we are diving I try very hard to make you feel welcome and comfortable for this very reason.)

For example...when I was a much newer diver and I was diving exclusively in NC... I would be on a boat of VERY experience divers. I would hang on every word (clue #1 that you are a newbie) and I would ask for advice hoping to learn something new or at least make a friend (clue #2 you are a newbie) and sometimes I did not communicate clearly (clue #3 you are a newbie) and the guys would basically criticize me, or make fun of me or otherwise shun me. The only person who would dive with me was the boat capt but I came VERY close to quitting as they made me feel really stupid. However some of the blame fell squarely on my own shoulders despite not realizing it at the time.

Some of these people later became good friends and what I did not realize was I was projecting warning signs that I was new, a bit insecure and unsure of myself. Actually I was much better than I let on but I was afraid to overstate my abilities so understated them which was a big warning flag as well and the end result was no wanted to dive with an accident waiting to happen. At least they thought I was an accident waiting to happen. Truth is I was not...but others thought I was so no one would dive with me.

Many years later I realized my own role/responsibility in the matter. Up until then I just wrote those divers off as mean. Chances are they were not particularly mean but how could they help someone who could not help themselves very well??? Fortunately I am not a quitter and I hung in there.

But snarky divers on a boat may just be responding to the non-verbal signals you are sending them...or they could just be insensitive or they could just be mean. You may never know but over time you'll start to see the difference. Or you can choose to divw with groups you know will be nice.

[peterbj7]

I quite often post in the "other place", sometimes expressing a view contrary to that some others have already propounded, usually as fact rather than an opinion. My word has that earned me some flak! Those of you who know me might know I rarely open my mouth unless I know something about the subject, and when I express an opinion it's usually to put a direct statement of alleged fact (which is usually just an opinion) into some perspective. Several times I've just backed out of threads when remaining there was utterly pointless and I didn't want to raise my blood pressure. I just hope that novice divers see those blanket assertions as opinions rather than as facts, but I have no idea whether that's so. Interestingly, the people making the most sweeping assertions and mocking other ways of doing things have often had very a narrow range of experiences. I find it amusing but also worrying when I am lectured on some detailed aspect of diving by people who have made less than 5% of the dives I have, and especially when it's an area I know I have good experience of. I've always thought there are a few bad ways to dive but lots of good ones, but that view often doesn't go down well! But I continue to go there as a service to the public!

[Sharklover]

For example...when I was a much newer diver and I was diving exclusively in NC... I would be on a boat of VERY experience divers. I would hang on every word (clue #1 that you are a newbie) and I would ask for advice hoping to learn something new or at least make a friend (clue #2 you are a newbie) and sometimes I did not communicate clearly (clue #3 you are a newbie) and the guys would basically criticize me, or make fun of me or otherwise shun me. The only person who would dive with me was the boat capt but I came VERY close to quitting as they made me feel really stupid. However some of the blame fell squarely on my own shoulders despite not realizing it at the time.

That's terrible! There is no point in making a new diver feel bad about being new, everyone has been there and everyone had some help when gaining their experience.

I have never encountered snarkiness on a boat here or elsewhere. But then again, for my first couple of years, I always buddied with a very experienced divers when diving offshore here in NC. Maybe that protected me.

I've been diving with said captain when my buddy pulled a dumb move and thumbed both of her dives. And she was no newbie, she was a DM.

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

That's terrible! There is no point in making a new diver feel bad about being new, everyone has been there and everyone had some help when gaining their experience.

And THAT RIGHT THERE is how most of the SD.com community feels. We were all new at one point, and we got help, or mentoring, from someone.

I like being a mentor to newbies, and many regulars on this site feel the same way.

[Mermaid Lady]

(You'll notice that if you join our boat wherever we are diving I try very hard to make you feel welcome and comfortable for this very reason.)

Yep, Kamala's always on my @ss to do likewise.

But seriously, it really is a pleasure to do so. She don't need to push very hard...
(I remember what it was like to be new too!)

[Mermaid Lady]

That's terrible! There is no point in making a new diver feel bad about being new, everyone has been there and everyone had some help when gaining their experience.

I have never encountered snarkiness on a boat here or elsewhere. But then again, for my first couple of years, I always buddied with a very experienced divers when diving offshore here in NC. Maybe that protected me.

Me neither. I've been lucky.

I've been diving with said captain when my buddy pulled a dumb move and thumbed both of her dives. And she was no newbie, she was a DM.

What does "thumbed" mean?

PS cute avatar!

[peterbj7]

In Britain it used to be far worse than you're depicting. There was a great divide between BSAC divers ("real" divers) and American trained ones. CMAS was tolerated as it was at least European, but PADI was not the Devil Incarnate, it was ignored as having nothing to do with diving. No PADI qualifications were recognised, at any level. I started diving with BSAC over 30 years ago, but qualification was projected to take 6-8 months with compulsory pool attendance 2 evenings a week every week, plus all weekend at the sea every other weekend. I couldn't possibly do that so after a while I lapsed and started diving illicitly, as quite a few others also did. Then in the early '90's when I already had over 40 dives I went to Egypt (actually on a desert safari) and qualified with PADI there at Na'ama Bay, now subsumed into Sharm el Sheik. Back in England I found a PADI shop (the owner was also a BSAC Advanced Instructor) and went up to Rescue Diver in a flooded quarry with opaque water just above freezing. By now I had over 60 dives and was moderately competent, so I went to a local dive club to see if I could join. They would let me join, but only as an absolute beginner. It would take a month of evenings and weekends to "learn" what is covered in a PADI DSD. I elected not to bother, and found a non-demoninational club recently formed and joined that. With them I learned a lot (from my peers) and did many serious dives, including Scapa Flow and the west of Ireland. Whenever we went off somewhere by the sea for a weekend's diving we found BSAC divers, and they wouldn't speak to us. Worse, most dive charter boats only recognised BSAC cards and wouldn't let us on board.

This was 15-17 years ago. It's all changed now. BSAC found members were leaving in droves and going to the new non-denominational clubs that were springing up all over the country, and BSAC had to go with the flow or close down. Finally I was invited to become a BSAC instructor, even though all my formal training had been elsewhere. BSAC still regard themselves as the "governing body" for all scuba activities in the UK (and they are so regarded by law), but they now have to accept that most divers there now qualified through PADI or one of the other hated American organisations.

Learning to dive in Britain before the late '90's was quasi-military and drove most interested people away. Against that, BSAC imposed standards far higher than those of most other dive organisations. For example, to be a qualified diver you had to learn to captain a boat and to navigate in difficult conditions. For the lowest diving certification you had to be accomplished at advanced first aid. You had to have a useful working knowledge of boats and engines, and you had to have proven dive planning abilities. And this of course was in the waters of the English Channel - rough, murky and cold. There's no doubt a BSAC qualified diver was a good diver. He was also likely to be a lonely one, as there weren't that many of them around.

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

What does "thumbed" mean?

In this context, "thumbed" means to abort the dive.

I was taught that any diver can thumb a dive for any reason, and the dive buddy should not question it. Safety first!

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

"snarky" (never heard that word before)

Definition of SNARKY
snark·y (snärk)
adj. snark·i·er, snark·i·est Slang
1. Rudely sarcastic or disrespectful; snide.
2. Irritable or short-tempered; irascible.

[Sharklover]

What does "thumbed" mean?

PS cute avatar!

Call or choose not to go on a dive.

Thanks! Looks like it cut the pirate hate off that I am wearing though

[Sharklover]

What does "thumbed" mean?

In this context, "thumbed" means to abort the dive.

I was taught that any diver can thumb a dive for any reason, and the dive buddy should not question it. Safety first!

Just to be clear, we would have all been much happier had she thumbed the dive prior the start of it. It was a scary few minutes for her and for us before she surfaced way away from our boat. I went back down with the captain and buddied with someone else for the second dive.

[Sharklover]

The adjective snarky is first recorded in 1906. It is from dialectal British snark, meaning 'to nag, find fault with', which is probably the same word as snark, snork, meaning 'to snort, snore'. (The likely connection is the derisive snorting sound of someone who is always finding fault.) Most dictionaries label snarky as "Chiefly British Slang." But for the last five or more years, it has become increasingly common in American publications, maybe ones infiltrated by British or Canadian writers and journalists.

Perhaps our learned Peter is from a slang free upbringing? British slang is so terrific, so that is a shame! But I quite like the word, so I am happy to keep it here.

Edited by Sharklover, 13 April 2012 - 10:46 PM.

[dive_sail_etc]

"snarky" (never heard that word before)

Definition of SNARKY
snark·y (snärk)
adj. snark·i·er, snark·i·est Slang
1. Rudely sarcastic or disrespectful; snide.
2. Irritable or short-tempered; irascible.

Yeah, I have to keep revisiting Wikipedia and removing my photo that mysteriously keeps appearing. Joe aka ThatJoeGuy, you wouldn't know ANYthing about that, I suppose?

And on a (rare) serious note, I have to admit the direction this topic has taken leaves me feeling great about our SD.com community! Thanks to everyone, from seasoned Uber Admins to freshest Newbie, who all combine to form such an encouraging and helpful environment. It's actually something of a refuge for many of us and, I sense, acts as a beacon that attracts like minded "good people" who drop by and decide to join up, which in turn keeps our delicate dynamic alive.

Sure, we have an occasional misunderstanding or outright mistake; those are nearly always corrected, unsolicited and with apologies offered, after a typical "guess I'm human" cool off period.

Hats off to Kamala who has always maintained our high standards and leads by example. I look forward to a fun future playing nice in the Forums sandbox and cementing cyber friendships while enjoying another of her great dive experiences.

P.S. My dig at Joe was baseless, of course, but I may have planted a seed in that fertile imagination!