44 replies to this topic

[dive_sail_etc]

The adjective snarky is first recorded in 1906. It is from dialectal British snark, meaning 'to nag, find fault with', which is probably the same word as snark, snork, meaning 'to snort, snore'. (The likely connection is the derisive snorting sound of someone who is always finding fault.) Most dictionaries label snarky as "Chiefly British Slang." But for the last five or more years, it has become increasingly common in American publications, maybe ones infiltrated by British or Canadian writers and journalists.

See? Leslie aka Sharklover makes my point; refining a definition with her own experience enriches everyone's lexicon, with a smile... (Not THAT smile!) (That's better. Now the other smile.)

Perhaps our learned Peter is from a slang free upbringing? British slang is so terrific, so that is a shame! But I quite like the word, so I am happy to keep it here.

Trust me Leslie, after meeting, diving and imbibing a bit with Peter aka peterbj7 I can attest to his knowledge of rather colorful slang when the occasion warrants.

[WreckWench]

(You'll notice that if you join our boat wherever we are diving I try very hard to make you feel welcome and comfortable for this very reason.)

Yep, Kamala's always on my @ss to do likewise.

But seriously, it really is a pleasure to do so. She don't need to push very hard...
(I remember what it was like to be new too!)

THIS IS MY HOPE AN DREAM FOR ALL OF SINGLEDIVERS.COM... as they build friends and dive buddies that we ALL remember what its like to be new and we extend a welcome as was done to us.

Thank you Teresa!

[WreckWench]

"snarky" (never heard that word before)

Definition of SNARKY
snark·y (snärk)
adj. snark·i·er, snark·i·est Slang
1. Rudely sarcastic or disrespectful; snide.
2. Irritable or short-tempered; irascible.

Yeah, I have to keep revisiting Wikipedia and removing my photo that mysteriously keeps appearing. Joe aka ThatJoeGuy, you wouldn't know ANYthing about that, I suppose?

And on a (rare) serious note, I have to admit the direction this topic has taken leaves me feeling great about our SD.com community! Thanks to everyone, from seasoned Uber Admins to freshest Newbie, who all combine to form such an encouraging and helpful environment. It's actually something of a refuge for many of us and, I sense, acts as a beacon that attracts like minded "good people" who drop by and decide to join up, which in turn keeps our delicate dynamic alive.

Sure, we have an occasional misunderstanding or outright mistake; those are nearly always corrected, unsolicited and with apologies offered, after a typical "guess I'm human" cool off period.

Hats off to Kamala who has always maintained our high standards and leads by example. I look forward to a fun future playing nice in the Forums sandbox and cementing cyber friendships while enjoying another of her great dive experiences.

P.S. My dig at Joe was baseless, of course, but I may have planted a seed in that fertile imagination!

Sparking ANYTHING in Joe's Imagination is downright dangerous...

but also fun!

And for the other...it is the hope and goal of this community to accomplish exactly what you've described. And you don't achieve that by 'picking and choosing'...rather its achieved by allowing anyone and everyone to be apart of the group and be genuinely welcomed and made to feel welcome...as if they are family. AND THEY ARE!!!

[WreckWench]

An additional thought...

When this was first posted I started to remove the specific reference to other sites but clicking on the links would have revealed their identity so I let the references remain. I was happy to hear add'l experiences that were more balanced and expected from a site as big as the one in question.

I believe that having a site with over 100k users would be impossible to operate as we do our site and I think some of the snarkiness comes from just trying to be noticed in a sea of thousands of names. And as noted previously... people often hide behind anonymity which we do not. That is why we require real pictures for your avatars and although we protect your last name...we use real first names.

And we run dive trips which promote divers getting to know one another...and hold local happy hours and events all designed to get to know one another. And it has worked. We have created that safe haven as Brad has called it and I am happy!

BUT....

Complacency is the root of demise for those who let their guard down. The same group of UBER friendly divers can just as easily forget what it was like to be new and see right thru and right past the new people in a group...or on a boat and only see their friends. And what's so wrong about that? Nothing...however in time even this group can and will be called 'snarky' and if we all don't do as Teresa reminded... "remember what it was like to be new" then we'll be as guilty of 'snarkiness' an anyone else.

Thank you all for a chance to remind us of our real purpose...which is to find friends and buddies in the sea of lost fish. And to create a safe haven for others to join us away from the cliques, and snarkiness and ROW (rest of the world) crap that we face daily!

[Mermaid Lady]

"snarky" (never heard that word before)

Definition of SNARKY
snark·y (snärk)
adj. snark·i·er, snark·i·est Slang
1. Rudely sarcastic or disrespectful; snide.
2. Irritable or short-tempered; irascible.

Hey I got to use the word today.
I caught my self acting a bit rude (Moi? never! ) so I went back and apologized for being "snarky". 0:)

[WreckWench]

Thanks! Looks like it cut the pirate hate off that I am wearing though

This board does not abide or allow pirate hate, that's why yours was automatically cut off.

I'm telling the mods!!

John you ain't right!

The poor girl mis-spells a word and you cry MOD on her!

[WreckWench]

FOR SOME REASON THIS DID NOT POST...will try again!

Leslie...you did a much better job of summing up my thoughts than I did...

Ellen...I am glad you feel safe here...its HARD to develop a safe haven and enforce it. Its HARD to create an open environment where divers feel welcome and accepted and secure and genuinely liked either on the net or on trips regardless of their diving and life experiences. And its hard to stay the course even when you have created such an environment.

WHY?

Because its contrary to most of the world we live in. Its contrary to the clique oriented environments we live and operate in. And its hard to be accepting of people that are different than we are...to peel back the layers to really get to know someone...to accept them when they may appear to be 'odd' or 'different' up front and not judge a book by the cover... or pass judgement too quickly. To attain this level of inclusion takes a lot of work and effort and determination. And its a risk... SD takes this risk every time we run a trip that is OPEN TO EVERYONE. When you do not know anyone the risk of *possibly not liking someone* is less than the alternative of always being by yourself. But as you develop friends here and enlarge your diving circle then its harder to take the risk of *some PITA* being on a trip and ruining your vacation. Its easier to fall back on going with a group of friends you KNOW already and you KNOW will be fun and you KNOW will be nice. And there is nothing wrong with that...we hope you join our group trips anyway or just let us book your travel and save you some money. But what happens when you put that trip together? What happens if you are not on the "exclusive invitee list"? Do you feel left out? Do you feel "included"? And if you are on the highly coveted "exclusive invitee list" then you usually will feel "special" and "wanted"...part of the "cool kids"...but for how long? The foundation is not based upon inclusion but rather exclusion. So in time the very thing that worked ...now no longer works because the foundation is not the same.

Discussions such as these are invaluable for several reasons. First it enables new members to know we are the REAL DEAL and we are a safe, secure and fun group! Secondly it enables us to determine if the value proposition for SD is still needed, wanted, and desirable. There will come a day...possibly sooner than I like where SD will no longer withstand the tests of time. My goal is to recognize that inevitable before it happens so I can slowly and smoothly transition the site down to fewer and fewer trips. The most horrible thing in the world would be for SD to crash and burn so rapidly that everything it has stood for and everything good it has accomplished and represented is lost in the collateral damage.

Thank you for the chance to have such discussions...and thank you all for caring and appreciating what we have WITH ALL OF YOUR EFFORTS AND CONTRIBUTIONS CREATED....

SingleDivers.com is the sum of its glorious parts...the Ellen's and Leslie's and every other person on this site!

[TCdamsel]

And on a (rare) serious note, I have to admit the direction this topic has taken leaves me feeling great about our SD.com community! Thanks to everyone, from seasoned Uber Admins to freshest Newbie, who all combine to form such an encouraging and helpful environment. It's actually something of a refuge for many of us and, I sense, acts as a beacon that attracts like minded "good people" who drop by and decide to join up, which in turn keeps our delicate dynamic alive.

Sure, we have an occasional misunderstanding or outright mistake; those are nearly always corrected, unsolicited and with apologies offered, after a typical "guess I'm human" cool off period.

Hats off to Kamala who has always maintained our high standards and leads by example. I look forward to a fun future playing nice in the Forums sandbox and cementing cyber friendships while enjoying another of her great dive experiences.

Couldn't have said it better! I'm proud to be a member of this group and I'm grateful for Kamala and everyone who participated in this thread!

[peterbj7]

I've just checked my compact edition of the Oxford English Dictionary, new edition last year, and "snark" and any derivatives isn't in there. I presume the above definition came from Webster's (?) which of course from its inception has not been a dictionary in the strict sense, but a manual of desired changes to the language - a sort of a cross between the OED and Fowler's English Usage. Not many Americans know that American spelling was invented by Noah Webster when he wrote his first and second editions, because he thought English spelling was archaic and anomalous and he wanted America to have a fresh start. Napoleon would have been proud of him, as that was exactly the basis for the French Larousse dictionary. Maybe he was as Webster worked for some of his life in France, though most of his work was after Napoleon's demise. The OED has always simply recorded what happens and has never tried to influence it - a "pure" dictionary.

I have never heard the work "snark" or derivatives in England, save in Arthur Dodgson's works. You probably know him better as Lewis Carroll. In particular his poem "The Hunting of the Snark".

I can't find "snarky" in Wikipedia. "Snark" I can find.

In Britain I have never heard of "thumbing" a dive. We say "call", as an abbreviation for "call off".

[Sharklover]

I've just checked my compact edition of the Oxford English Dictionary, new edition last year, and "snark" and any derivatives isn't in there. I presume the above definition came from Webster's (?) which of course from its inception has not been a dictionary in the strict sense, but a manual of desired changes to the language - a sort of a cross between the OED and Fowler's English Usage. Not many Americans know that American spelling was invented by Noah Webster when he wrote his first and second editions, because he thought English spelling was archaic and anomalous and he wanted America to have a fresh start. Napoleon would have been proud of him, as that was exactly the basis for the French Larousse dictionary. Maybe he was as Webster worked for some of his life in France, though most of his work was after Napoleon's demise. The OED has always simply recorded what happens and has never tried to influence it - a "pure" dictionary.

I have never heard the work "snark" or derivatives in England, save in Arthur Dodgson's works. You probably know him better as Lewis Carroll. In particular his poem "The Hunting of the Snark".

I can't find "snarky" in Wikipedia. "Snark" I can find.

In Britain I have never heard of "thumbing" a dive. We say "call", as an abbreviation for "call off".

Dear dear erudite Peter, you missed the part where snarky was referred to as British SLANG. I hardly think there is a dictionary for those words and would certainly hate to see one published. What fun would that be if a first time visitor to London didn't believe that the fellows discussing Brahms and Liszt were classical music aficionados?

I have never heard anyone but an American "thumb" a dive. I suspect that reference comes from when your buddy looks at you and gives you the thumbs up, meaning your dive is over.

Edited by Sharklover, 14 April 2012 - 11:26 PM.

[Sharklover]

Thanks! Looks like it cut the pirate hate off that I am wearing though

This board does not abide or allow pirate hate, that's why yours was automatically cut off.

I'm telling the mods!!

I've got nothing but love for pirates. My bad.

[peterbj7]

Leslie, are you American or British? Many versions of the OED now contain at least some slang words, but not yet "snark", at least in the edition I have. That may mean it's used in Britain but only marginally. As to thumbing, the meaning is obvious, I just haven't heard it used. Brits use "call" to end a dive, or perhaps not to start it in the first place. And I don't consider myself particularly erudite!

[Sharklover]

Leslie, are you American or British? Many versions of the OED now contain at least some slang words, but not yet "snark", at least in the edition I have. That may mean it's used in Britain but only marginally. As to thumbing, the meaning is obvious, I just haven't heard it used. Brits use "call" to end a dive, or perhaps not to start it in the first place. And I don't consider myself particularly erudite!

Very much an American. With many British friends, even some who are snarky on occasion. My understanding is that snark/snarky is of British origin, but that we Americans have made it our own at this point. From the "Virtual Linguist".....

Snark and snarky

There was a discussion on Radio 4 this morning (see article and listen to the interview here) about snark, a nasty, snide type of journalism, which undermines and insults its subjects using tired old language. The BBC article said that New Yorker journalist David Denby coined the word, but the verb snark and adjective snarky are, in fact, in the OED and date back to around the end of the 19th century.

The verb to snark came first and it originally meant 'to snore or to snort', and then gained the meaning 'to find fault with, nag'. It's an onomatopoeic word which came originally from German. The adjective snarky is defined as 'irritable, short-tempered and narky'. One of the citations for snarky in the Dictionary is from Dick Crossman, 1960s Labour minister (he wrote the words in the 1970s): "We also have to overcome something else - the stream of anti-government propaganda, smearing, snarky, derisive, which comes out of Fleet Street". So, nothing new there then, despite David Denby's new book on the subject.