39 replies to this topic

[TekDiveGirl]

I guess another doctor is in order .

Seriously, I hope that you get well soon.

Also, most of us that dive doubles and that type of thing really don't WANT a divemaster. My concern would be for a newbie divemaster that has never seen anything but recreational gear trying to get my butt back on the boat if I was unconscious. Would they even know where to start cutting off gear? Hopefully, my buddy would be there (and even my normal buddy who dives recreational gear is very familar with my rig and the release points), but one never knows.

If you want to get picky, DM's up here should also be up on drysuits because a great many of the rapid ascents up here seem to be air trapped in the drysuit boots. I have personally seen one were the diver's undies fluffed up against his vent and he had to flood the suit to slow his ascent (Brrrr!!!!) I haven't run into a dive pro on the Great Lakes that doesn't dive dry at least part of the time, but you never know.

Obviously Peter is in an area where he sees a lot of tech rigs. In that case, if I were running a dive op., I would use the same requirements for a DM. And I can't believe DM's in this day and age that aren't familar with Nitrox, but it happens!

First off regarding my doctors - I had the best surgeons in the world fix me! Take a look at what I looked like about Sept. 1 of this year. Right now I am limited to lifting 10 pounds. Many surgeons would have me limited to a light weight lifting limit for the rest of my life. My surgeon says I can lift heavy things again as long as I am not straining to do so. The end of this month my 10 pound weight restriction is lifted and I get myself with a personal trainer and into the gym. I will be able to life my doubles and stages again without one bit of straining!!!

I -could- dive them right now if somebody were to carry them for me and say I were to gear up in water or something. But I am a major stickler on this one. I don't believe a person should dive gear they can not or will not carry. If you don't have the strength to lift it - you shouldn't dive it. So I will hit the gym and get strong. Once I have paid my dues and regained all of my strength - I will be back in my doubles!!! Until then it will be back in the single tank setup.

As to getting well -- I absolutely feel better than I have in years - so thanks for that!!!

I agree with you on not wanting a DM as well... I prefer they never touch my gear. I know how I like my gear and how it should be set. I am comfortable with it a specific way (ok some people may say anal) but I know how it should be. I don't want anybody messing with it.

When I was a new tech diver, I had a DM once turn off my left post right before I jumped off a boat because he thought the tank was "turned off." Of course he didn't say anything to me when he did such a thing. I learned then and there never to let anybody touch my doubles - ever.

Regarding rigs and release points -- there are so many different types of BC's and such out there - DM's can't know them all. I think it is simple enough to look at a rig and figure out how to get somebody out of it. If nothing else - start cutting. A harness is easy enough to cut somebody out of. But of course your buddy is going to be there -- who else is going to get your gear when you are gone!

[Diverbrian]

I am sorry if my attempt at humor fell flat. I was referring to what would likely happen to a doctor that told me that I couldn't dive, LOL. I am sure that you had the best in all seriousness. I have just been fortunate enough to not have any medical conditions that preclude me diving.

I have had that discussion on another board about people touching gear and we seem to be in agreement. The only time that I have seen anyone touch my doubles is to scoot them over for another place on the boat, to load them onto, or help remove them from the boat. As the saying goes, I am always the last person to touch them before they submerge. Most of the boat captains and divemasters up here are tech divers in their other guise so they understand that mentality. You would have been right at home in Brockville. Out of three divers, we had three sets of doubles floating around.

My dive buddy would love to have my gear. But, I don't know what the shipping costs would be for the poor sap who bought it on E-Bay . Let's see two steel 100's, steel backplate, stage bottle (she keeps the regs),......

[TekDiveGirl]

I am sorry if my attempt at humor fell flat. I was referring to what would likely happen to a doctor that told me that I couldn't dive, LOL. I am sure that you had the best in all seriousness. I have just been fortunate enough to not have any medical conditions that preclude me diving.

I have had that discussion on another board about people touching gear and we seem to be in agreement. The only time that I have seen anyone touch my doubles is to scoot them over for another place on the boat, to load them onto, or help remove them from the boat. As the saying goes, I am always the last person to touch them before they submerge. Most of the boat captains and divemasters up here are tech divers in their other guise so they understand that mentality. You would have been right at home in Brockville. Out of three divers, we had three sets of doubles floating around.

My dive buddy would love to have my gear. But, I don't know what the shipping costs would be for the poor sap who bought it on E-Bay . Let's see two steel 100's, steel backplate, stage bottle (she keeps the regs),......

I knew you were joking about the doctor thing! (-; Darn I just realized I forgot to add the link to what I looked like back about Sept. 1

http://www.corestore.../zipperhead.jpg

Too bad I was not around when you guys did the Brockville trip. Of course that was Sept, I would only have been able to watch! I went to look for pictures and seems like you were the only one to take a few and there wasn't much to see!

People ship tanks and such on eBay all the time! I am looking to sell a set of 104's actually myself. I have 2 sets and I am not going to take both with me to CA and I have enough gear for at least 4 people!!!

[Diverbrian]

I am sorry if my attempt at humor fell flat.  I was referring to what would likely happen to a doctor that told me that I couldn't dive, LOL.  I am sure that you had the best in all seriousness.  I have just been fortunate enough to not have any medical conditions that preclude me diving.

I have had that discussion on another board about people touching gear and we seem to be in agreement.  The only time that I have seen anyone touch my doubles is to scoot them over for another place on the boat, to load them onto, or help remove them from the boat.  As the saying goes, I am always the last person to touch them before they submerge.  Most of the boat captains and divemasters up here are tech divers in their other guise so they understand that mentality.  You would have been right at home in Brockville.  Out of three divers, we had three sets of doubles floating around.

My dive buddy would love to have my gear.  But, I don't know what the shipping costs would be for the poor sap who bought it on E-Bay .  Let's see two steel 100's, steel backplate, stage bottle (she keeps the regs),......

I knew you were joking about the doctor thing! (-; Darn I just realized I forgot to add the link to what I looked like back about Sept. 1

http://www.corestore.../zipperhead.jpg

Too bad I was not around when you guys did the Brockville trip. Of course that was Sept, I would only have been able to watch! I went to look for pictures and seems like you were the only one to take a few and there wasn't much to see!

People ship tanks and such on eBay all the time! I am looking to sell a set of 104's actually myself. I have 2 sets and I am not going to take both with me to CA and I have enough gear for at least 4 people!!!

There is a reason that my camera went to the Daisy Hill camera farm after that trip, LOL. I am expecting it back soon as I want to get photos of my newest little monster/ family member posted. There were a lot more photos than that, but we need to get others to post them. I also didn't post the ones with recogonizable faces yet as I don't have their explicit permission (more like haven't gotten around to asking, they really wouldn't have a problem, but I like to cover my butt here).

I have a half a dive shop myself. I know that feeling too. Worse yet, I am looking at getting more tanks. Double 130's before I take my tri-mix course the year after next, anyone? I want to dive them next year before going through the "boot camp" involved in a tri-mix course.

[TraceMalin]

It is unbelievable that you can become an instructor with as little as 40 dives.

What agency allows that? I think most (all?) require 100 dives, which is still way too few.

Walter, PDIC once had 40, but I checked the current prequisites and it is 50 dives to be an instructor. I'm with you. Even 100 is too few. I dove for 8 yrs. before I took DM training then did a year interning to be an instructor.

Trace

[BradfordNC]

Diving is the invisible sport.

no, it's not a sport.

its a recreational hobby.

a sport implies competition.

and competing egos don't count. ie.. i have gone deeper, longer, further, darker, and with less air.

[maninthesea]

It’s my opinion that dive guides regardless of certification level should be mentally and physically equipped to deal with the problems that may arise on the type of dive they are guiding.
If it is single tank air dive there is no need for the guide to have any nitrox training. If nitrox is involved the guide should understand the benefits and limitations. Some situations it may be better for the guide to be on air in case he needs to go down after someone.
If the customers on the boat are tech diving then they should have a guide that is adequately equipped to complete the same dive. Or if they are just paying for a ride to the site they may just need a good briefing of the site. Or they may want/need support/safety divers. At any rate if a dive requires more skills and equipment of the guide then the customers should expect to pay for that extra skill/equipment.
For many divers the only benefit of a guide is to navigate the site and point out things of interest that come from local knowledge. Other divers should not be in the water without a guide that monitors their air, buoyancy, and dive time. Most of these divers know this and would not dive without a guide. If not for these types of divers, many in the industry would not be employed.
It never fails to amaze me when "professionals" in the industry beat their chest and describe how inadequate other DM's, instructors, and agencies are. If your good, people will figure it out all by themselves. If your not they will figure that out also. Maybe a better thing to do would be to make non-public suggestions to those that may benefit from a little help.
Cheers Jim

[peterbj7]

I should clarify that what I was really getting at was that far too many DMs and Instructors just don't have enough hours in the water. Not having more advanced qualifications (or at least, experience) is more a symptom than a problem in itself. The Adv EANx course exposed me to aspects of diving I had never before experienced, and tested me in circumstances I had up till then succeeded in avoiding. Once you've experienced situations in training (whether formal or just from suitably experienced friends) that you thought were terminal but you overcome them, you are greatly more confident in dealing with similar issues that arise for real.

With diving, Jim, I'm not concerned with what the dive is intended to be, and whether the guide can do it. I'm concerned about what happens when something goes wrong, and whether the guide has the presence of mind and personal diving skills to convert a potential disaster into a learning experience for all. I assure you, this is not a theoretical concern. A couple of days ago I saw an inexperienced DM lose control of a group of 7 on a night dive. Result - all 7 were washed away in a current they shouldn't have been near (and didn't know existed because they hadn't been told); they were finally recovered over 1/2 a mile away, with 2 people injured from being dashed against coral. The issue was not whether the DM had advanced qualifications, but whether he had had sufficient time in the water to see a situation developing and the knowledge and skill to stop it.

I'm not expressing myself very well. I'm just advocating far more general and testing experience than many divers seem to get. I've never seen a diver who took his first "tech" courses with us who didn't emerge a greatly more confident, aware and capable diver.

On experience levels held by DMs and Instructors, I know several people who went through the Pro-Dive mill at Fort Lauderdale, arriving as non-divers and emerging a few weeks later as instructors. I find that frightening. It's a bit like passing your motorcycle test and then going out at 150mph on a superbike. It's hard to be precise about what it is you don't know yet, but there's no doubt you don't know it and need to.

I also know a girl back home (UK) who has done ALL her dives from the very start in the same inland flooded quarry divesite. She has never dived in salt water or from a boat, and now she's an instructor......

I've written this post piecemeal and I apologise if it's incoherent.

[WreckWench]

It makes perfect sense to me!

[TraceMalin]

Diving is the invisible sport.

no, it's not a sport.

its a recreational hobby.

a sport implies competition.

and competing egos don't count. ie.. i have gone deeper, longer, further, darker, and with less air.

Actually, in a class I took in college called Philosophy of Sport and Play, scuba diving and skydiving fit the criteria for sports. I recall skydiving was a sport of vertigo and both share a competitive factor in which yourself, nature and other factors allow for a sport classification. Baseball was not a sport, but was a game. Lacrosse was a sport. Being a participant in these activities, I remember how they ranked, but I no longer recall why?

However, things may have changed since we are now in a period of post-analytical philosophy. Activities were categorized as play, game or sport. Play had to be free and unreal. Sport and games were similar but there were slight distinctions. Perhaps there are more categories now in the field of study and scuba is no longer classified as a sport?

Trace