90 replies to this topic

[GentDiver]

Anyone know much about rebreathers? An opinions on them? The concept sounds very interesting, but I wonder about all the extra stuff and what kind of maintenence is involved.

Scott

:lam:

[WreckWench]

Excellent question. I too have been researching them and I know we have some experts on the site so I'm sure you'll have some answers soon.

However for the REALLY curious we'll be combining our February SD trip with a chance to actually TRY a rebreather sort of like a "Discover Rebreathers" mini course as well as offering a cavern intro etc. Stay tuned for more details! -ww

[GentDiver]

However for the REALLY curious we'll be combining our February SD trip with a chance to actually TRY a rebreather sort of like a "Discover Rebreathers" mini course as well as offering a cavern intro etc. Stay tuned for more details! -ww

Now you do have my attention!!! I would love to give one a try... I was going to look into a class here, but a chance to dive with my buds and try one of these things... that would rock!!!

Scott

:lam:

[TraceMalin]

I was trained on the Draeger Atlantis I in the early 1990s and then I never used a rebreather after the class. The Draeger was more streamlined than some other models, but you could feel every breath you were taking since the bag sat against your back. It was like having an external lung. The class was free so we instructors could sell them and at least have been trained to use them and answer customers basic questions prior to their courses.

If I were going to purchase a rebreather, I would get the Halcyon RB80. The rebreather is a cylinder and actually smaller than an AL80 tank and worn in the center of the back. It has a 10 hour run time, can do nitrox and trimix diving, and your bailout bottles are worn on either side of the rebreather. The system is the closest rebreather system to standard scuba doubles and far easier to adapt to wearing and using than other models.

Check it out at: http://www.halcyon.n...her/index.shtml

I would avoid the Inspiration rebreather... unless you are a gorgeous blonde... will marry me & let me take a huge life insurance policy out on you... so I can use the money to buy a dive center in paradise with a brunette

Trace

[WreckWench]

I would avoid the Inspiration rebreather... unless you are a gorgeous blonde... will marry me & let me take a huge life insurance policy out on you... so I can use the money to buy a dive center in paradise with a brunette

Trace

Trace...them there are 'fighting' words! Go easy on us blondes ok...I've already lost out to one brunette twice today and lately I've been losing out to all the knockout redheads we have on this site!

Give a gal a chance...and if not...then just give me time to think of some suitable punishment! LOL!!! :mauswhip:

[domino22]

I would avoid the Inspiration rebreather... unless you are a gorgeous blonde... will marry me & let me take a huge life insurance policy out on you... so I can use the money to buy a dive center in paradise with a brunette 

Trace

Trace...them there are 'fighting' words! Go easy on us blondes ok...I've already lost out to one brunette twice today and lately I've been losing out to all the knockout redheads we have on this site!

Give a gal a chance...and if not...then just give me time to think of some suitable punishment! LOL!!! :mauswhip:

Green in Athens looked cool! But you may end up "rocking the cradle" to find a guy into green!

[domino22]

I was under the impression that alot of "lime" or something was needed for rebreathers and travel with one would be a hassle, any of this true?

[peterbj7]

I would avoid the Inspiration rebreather... unless you are a gorgeous blonde... will marry me & let me take a huge life insurance policy out on you... so I can use the money to buy a dive center in paradise with a brunette

Interesting comment, Trace. I've done quite a few Inspiration dives and while I think it has some problems that are better addressed by other models I don't think it's dangerous. Nor do the statistics point that way. True, far more people have died on Inspirations than on any other rebreather, but then there are far more Inspirations out there and more dives are being done on them than on any other. I read the incident reports very carefully, and I've not yet seen one where the machine was directly at fault. You can say with some justification that the machine could be more proactive in stopping the diver doing stupid things, but others are virtually as bad and if you're prone to that you shouldn't be diving any sort of rebreather. Many of the deaths I've read about resulted from crass stupidity on the part of the diver, not making decision errors underwater when something's gone wrong and (s)he's under extreme pressure, but on the surface before they even go in. Like not turning the electronics on, or not opening the diluent and/or oxygen valves. The pre-dive checks involve all three, yet people still go in without doing any of them. Or banging the handsets (containing the on-board computers) on the boat rail to stop the warning beeps they keep giving when they have detected something wrong. Or dismantling the breathing loop mouthpiece and not re-connecting it properly, so that under water it fell apart. Or diving without any bailout cylinder having previously removed the built in regulator second stage that allows you access to the on-board diluent. Or (this is my last for now) diving with no gas that would be breathable at a particular depth in the event of total loop failure.

All these are actual incidents for which the press blamed the Inspiration.

I also own a Megalodon and it has suffered three major failures in no more than 100 hours diving. And I had a client here with his Steam Machines Prism which suffered a catastrophic loop failure during a dive when the T-piece connecting to a counterlung came away. Yet both are well designed machines.

CCR diving is most certainly not for everyone, but for those who are ready for them they give a freedom underwater that cannot be matched by any other apparatus. Fish aren't afraid because there aren't (usually) any bubbles, and I've had all sorts of creatures swim up close when with OC you're lucky to see them at all. CCR diving on nitrox also isn't cheap, but they come into their own when diving trimix. The amount of gas you use is miniscule compared with OC trimix, so the gas cost is dramatically less. I currently have a 3 litre (20 cu.ft.) cylinder of trimix 10/50 that I have already done 10 hours on, and it's not exhausted yet. I simply couldn't afford to do 10 hours of OC trimix.

Just spotted the reference to travelling with a rebreather. They're quite heavy when the tanks are on board, and it's best to arrange to rent tanks at your destination. I know some people who have not been allowed to carry their tanks on an aircraft anyway, even empty with the valves removed. And you need a significan amount of CO2 scrubber for a diving holiday, more than you'd want to carry by air even if the airline let you (some will, most won't). Again, better go somewhere you can buy the stuff. That's a key reason I opened my dive center in Belize, to be able to support rebreather divers. Quite a few have passed through so far, and Trace, they haven't passed out. Even though some were using the Inspiration you so deprecate, everyone had a good time with many hours underwater and went home alive. Even the Prism worked after a couple of hours work with Aquaseal (Aquasure in the UK).

[TraceMalin]

Peter, those are some good points. The Inspiration has just become the scapegoat for all non-DIR rebreather jokes.

Trace

[Sophia]

I was under the impression that alot of "lime" or something was needed for rebreathers and travel with one would be a hassle, any of this true?

You are talking about sodalime. I have a Dolphin semi-closed. I've only traveled with mine twice. I was worried they would flag something, so I hung around during the airport inspection. No problems. I talked to the guys and they said they see rebreathers and know what they are. Their only concern was my tanks. The sodalime looks like clay sand. My rebreather instructor said he would put his sodalime in ziplocks and say it was sand. The only problem with sodalime is that sometimes boat owners do not like you to be filling the sodalime on the boat. If you spill some, and water is on the floor, the sodalime will become corrosive. Boat owners get ornery then. I really like using the extendair cartridges. They are like airfilters, and they last through many hours of diving.

One thing I noticed when shopping a year ago, is that semi-closed and closed are two comletely different worlds, and price ranges. I bought my Dolphin because I wanted a semi-closed(SCR) that I could convert to closed when I became more sophisticated. Plus the initial investment $1400 on ebay was more reasonable. On scubaboard I noticed that everyone said that their rebreather was the only one that wasn't a deathtrap. Further investigations proved that wrong.

The only drawback to my darling Dolphin is that you have to take it apart every night. Since you recycle your exhale, you have to clean your spit out of the exhale bag and hoses. You already know about the warm moist air and the long bottom times, but one benefit they don't mention, is that you don't move up and down when taking deep breaths. I really like that. Another thing I like about my Dolphin is that it is idiot proof. You can hook it up backwards, and it still works. You can completely flood it, and it just goes to open scuba mode.

[peterbj7]

The Inspiration has just become the scapegoat for all non-DIR rebreather jokes.

You mean non Halycon, right? Otherwise I can't think what can be non-DIR about diving a completely standardised bit of kit. Or am I wrong in thinking that the concept of DIR is about standardisation and hence predictability?

[peterbj7]

One thing I noticed when shopping a year ago, is that semi-closed and closed are two comletely different worlds, and price ranges. I bought my Dolphin because I wanted a semi-closed(SCR) that I could convert to closed when I became more sophisticated. Plus the initial investment $1400 on ebay was more reasonable. On scubaboard.com I noticed that everyone said that their rebreather was the only one that wasn't a deathtrap. Further investigations proved that wrong.

Yes, SCR and CCR are fundamentally different, though they look superficially similar. Key difference inside is that with an SCR you dive a constant FO2, just like OC, but with a CCR you dive constant PO2. I don't have much of a place for an SCR other than teaching, as it doesn't allow me to do any more than I can already do on OC. With a CCR, however, I regularly do 50 metre (170') 3 hour solo dives, and deeper if I'm on mix (though then I always take a buddy).

In fact, the only serious incident I've ever had on any sort of rebreather was on a Dolphin. I hadn't assembled it and it turned out that a clamp on part of the loop wasn't correctly positioned, and well through the dive when I went through an emergency drill this clamp opened and the loop partially flooded. I immediately got a caustic cocktail, which is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy (well, maybe on HIM, but not on anyone else!). I completely flooded the loop on an Inspiration during training but never got a cocktail.

Don't believe that any rebreather is or isn't a "deathtrap". If you know it and understand it, and most of all use it properly there isn't a machine out there that won't serve you well.

Draeger started this whole thing running many, many years ago, but the Inspiration was the first commercially available computer driven CCR. There are more deaths on that than on any other rebreather currently available, but as I said to Trace there are far more Inspirations out there than all other models combined. Most of them are doing many dives a year, and again as I said the machine has not yet (so far as I am aware) been found to be the cause of a single death.

Diving a CCR requires a calm cool intellect and the ability to remain analytical under the most extreme stress. I have refused to take CCR students who I considered didn't have a suitable approach. If you are functioning optimally a CCR gives far more ways of getting out of a scrape than does OC.

[TraceMalin]

The Inspiration has just become the scapegoat for all non-DIR rebreather jokes.

You mean non Halycon, right? Otherwise I can't think what can be non-DIR about diving a completely standardised bit of kit. Or am I wrong in thinking that the concept of DIR is about standardisation and hence predictability?

Right! Non-Halcyon = Non-DIR...

Resistance is futile...

[peterbj7]

The trouble with you, Trace, is that I never know when you're being serious!

[TraceMalin]

The trouble with you, Trace, is that I never know when you're being serious!

I know! Kamala thought I hated blondes and Vanessa thought I actually liked her!