115 replies to this topic

[Scott]

INFJ Libra...both seem pretty accurate in my short reading through some of the links provided. Especially part of one of the Libra descriptions...I definately prefer to avoid conflict with someone I care about at all possible costs. I don't raise my voice...EVER, or enter into arguments with someone who is getting loud and irrational. I just switch off...it has driven a few girlfriends nuts that they couldn't get me upset no matter what they said or how loudly they said it!

[Hipshot]

Personally, I don't buy into any of this Zodiac stuff...then again, we Scorpios aren't superstitious.

Rick


Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.--Albert Einstein (1879—1955)

[Twinklez]

I definately prefer to avoid conflict with someone I care about at all possible costs. I don't raise my voice...EVER, or enter into arguments with someone who is getting loud and irrational. I just switch off...it has driven a few girlfriends nuts that they couldn't get me upset

Foolish girlfriends; that's an awesome quality! And why would you want someone who wants to upset you anyway? Keep that quality...kick the girlfriends who don't like it to the curb! There are plenty of us out here who would appreciate that quality whole-heartedly!

Now on the other hand, there are things to be worked out in every relationship. I've met men who simple avoid any type of discussion where a disagreement is involved. Problems fester because they're left unresolved. So discussion and communication is a must...but getting angry and raising your voice is sooo unproductive.

[BabyDuck]

david & others, i think the 'i' and 'e' are more where you get your energy *from*, whether inside yourself or interaction with others, and not about being shy or unable to speak to groups.

astrology is interesting & i used to read a lot about it. i had my natal chart done & i'm scorpio sun, cancer moon, and saggitarius rising. the only saggy trait i have is that i'm clumsy, but i thought the rest was applicable. i think the most interesting thing is that when most people read theirs, there's a 'of course that's what i'd do, it's the only thing that makes sense' response - everybody thinks theirs is best & most correct!

and with myers-briggs, enfp. absolutely me.

[David Evans]

david & others, i think the 'i' and 'e' are more where you get your energy *from*, whether inside yourself or interaction with others, and not about being shy or unable to speak to groups.

....

and with myers-briggs, enfp. absolutely me.

That's an interesting observation, BabyDuck! The more I think about it, the more I agree with it. I do *very* well speaking in front of people - the more people there are, the better I do. I was even an actor in highschool and college. And just TRY to keep me off the stage at a karaoke bar! HAH!

Yet every time I'm around a large group of people, I need considerable recharge time afterwards. And as I mentioned, being at a social gathering of 30 or more people sounds like HELL to me. But less than 10 people (or better yet, less than 5) sounds LOVELY.

so to your point, yes, I think you're exactly right. Some people get energy from others, and some people (me) expend energy with others. For me, the more people, the greater the expense.

I really wish I was an "E", but I am indeed a hard-core "I".

I think if I could pick the type of personality I wish I could be, it would be ENFP. Do you think it's possible for people to change?

Or are we are who we are? (wow what an odd sentence )

-d

[Twinklez]

And as I mentioned, being at a social gathering of 30 or more people sounds like HELL to me.  But less than 10 people (or better yet, less than 5) sounds LOVELY.

so to your point, yes, I think you're exactly right.  Some people get energy from others, and some people (me) expend energy with others.  For me, the more people, the greater the expense.

I really wish I was an "E", but I am indeed a hard-core "I". 

I think if I could pick the type of personality I wish I could be, it would be ENFP.  Do you think it's possible for people to change? 

Or are we are who we are?  (wow what an odd sentence )

-d

David, I'm an ENTP, or was. (More about that in a minute)

Large groups are wonderful for me socially, but if you cut the numbers down, make it one. In a large group you can be friendly and cordial but not necessarily personal. I don't like to let people inside my walls, with a group of five there are simply too many people with that opportunity. Pear that down to one and (a) it's easier to deflect, or (b) it's typically someone you might be considering letting in.

Ok...the "or was" statement: After stating that I was an ENTP, which is a very extroverted and analytical / logical person; I took the test again online. It had been almost 20 years since the first time I took it. The results = ENTJ. I've changed! We all change. We learn from our education, experience and many other things that influence us during our lifetimes, and we change. I wanted to "soften" myself a little.

I remember well the time of my life during which I took the test the first time. I was in full survival mode. Everything was cut and dry. It had to be that way in order for me to take care of my sons and somehow provide them a better life than what we had at the time. My sons are adults now and I did the best I could to help them become successful and productive. I no longer have a need to be so "tough" and can now relax and be more of who I want to be. So can you!

Just look at the reasons you have for being the way your are, and work to eliminate, understand, or deal with them so that you can be who you really want to be. It takes time, but it works.

Twinklez

[David Evans]

Large groups are wonderful for me socially, but if you cut the numbers down, make it one. In a large group you can be friendly and cordial but not necessarily personal. I don't like to let people inside my walls, with a group of five there are simply too many people with that opportunity. Pear that down to one and (a) it's easier to deflect, or (b) it's typically someone you might be considering letting in.

Twinklez, thanks for a thought provoking post, and for sharing a bit with me about what makes you tick.

I feel a little bad about selecting just one part of your post to quote, but this was the part that really resonated with me... it's the part that made me realize that I'm an "I", and I probably always will be.

I personally hate walls. I don't have any, and I don't like encountering them and I don't like putting them up. Maybe that's part of why I don't like larger social situations? It's not that I have some sort of social anxiety, it's just that I don't enjoy them.

My own feeling is that a large social gathering is exactly as you described it: impersonal, anonymous, cordial, but not deep. I have been told by many friends that I'm a very intense person to get to know... not in the sense of intense meaning that I'm driven or focused or whatever, but rather in the sense of the word that I dig very, very deep into myself and equally deep into the people I really REALLY care about. By intense, I mean that discussions with me can go on for hours about topics like religion, politics, happiness, sex, dating, pet peeves... anything is fair game, and be prepared to explore (and expose) parts of yourself, and me, that some people would rather not have discussed.

I have probably 8 people in my life that I consider my friends... others are just social acquaintances... people that I wouldn't call to have dinner with or hang out with - people that if I never saw again it would be okay with me - just people that I happen to see from time to time. But the 8 people I consider my friends have complete and total access to my heart and know as much about me as I know about myself (maybe more)... and usually I know at least that much about them.

I know everyone has that small group of friends, but I think most people also have a larger group of casual friends... I don't. Furthermore, I don't want to. I'd rather not spend time with "casual friends", because I'd rather spend time with my "real" friends. I see the same small group of people over and over and over again, and am very slow to make new friends because when I do, I make them for life and I trust them with my soul. These are the people that if they needed a kidney, I'd give them one of mine.

I think the key difference is that my social circle - the entire sum total of it - consists of this group of people.

One of my roomies is an extrovert. She recently instituted "games night" at the house, in which about 30 people came over to play various games and whatnot. She THRIVES in that sort of environment, where people chat about work and kids and stuff, and she's totally energized by that environment. I went to this event because she's one of my friends, and I wanted to be there for her because this sort of activity is so important to her happiness. But I was TOTALLY spent by the end of the evening. I simply don't function at all in that environment.

But I wish I did.

Alas, I am afraid I'm a hard-core introvert, and having been one for 39 years, I don't think it's likely that I'll change.

[annasea]

My own feeling is that a large social gathering is exactly as you described it:  impersonal, anonymous, cordial, but not deep.  I have been told by many friends that I'm a very intense person to get to know...  not in the sense of intense meaning that I'm driven or focused or whatever, but rather in the sense of the word that I dig very, very deep into myself and equally deep into the people I really REALLY care about.  By intense, I mean that discussions with me can go on for hours about topics like religion, politics, happiness, sex, dating, pet peeves...  anything is fair game, and be prepared to explore (and expose) parts of yourself, and me, that some people would rather not have discussed.

I know everyone has that small group of friends, but I think most people also have a larger group of casual friends...  I don't.  Furthermore, I don't want to.  I'd rather not spend time with "casual friends", because I'd rather spend time with my "real" friends. 

She recently instituted "games night" at the house, in which about 30 people came over to play various games and whatnot.  But I was TOTALLY spent by the end of the evening.  I simply don't function at all in that environment.

But I wish I did.

David,

As a fellow introvert, I simply must jump in here ... and defend our kind!

I do not understand what you're saying. On one hand, you're most happy spending time with your treasured, "real" friends and prefer it to the "casual" ones, but then you wish you could change and "function" in an impersonal, *light* (as opposed to deep), environment as well. (It seems if you were able to sit through "games night" you can function, but perhaps not quite in the way that your roommate can.)

If you're happy with what you have, that's wonderful! I don't think a lot of people are. But what is it you're after, exactly? Are you looking to *change* your core, or merely looking to *add* other dimensions to yourself?

No need to answer here, I'm just concerned that you can answer this for yourself.

Edited by annasea, 25 July 2005 - 11:06 PM.

[David Evans]

Caetllonn, I certainly didn't mean to impugn the wonderful things about being an introvert... because as you know, I most certainly am one. And I do think there are some truly wonderful things about how my mind (and the mind of other introverts) operates.

Let's cut to the chase: I guess I think sometimes that being an introvert makes me seem like a "weirdo" to other people. Some of my good friends are extroverts, and they truly can't comprehend how my mind functions. One of my good friends who is an extrovert thinks that I'm always depressed or something like that, because of the time I spend alone. He doesn't understand that when I go off on a hike by myself, or disappear for a weekend into the mountains, that I'm doing something I truly love... instead he thinks I'm being moody. Even when I tell him as much, he thinks I'm hiding something inside, although I'm being honest with him

It has to do, I suppose, with what society sees as "normal". I sometimes (most of the time, in fact) feel like I don't fit in. I wish I did.

I'd like to give you an answer with greater substance or deeper insight or with some trite expression that might make you think I'm some great thinker. But to cut to the heart of the matter, I feel social pressure, especially as a single 39 year old, to fit into some societal "norm", and that's simply not me.

And you know, honestly, I'm afraid sometime that my introverted nature is going to mean that I'm destined to be a single diver for a long, long time to come. And that's frightening to me, because as wonderful as my tightly-knit group of friends are, I'd really like to share my life with someONE truly special that I may never meet because of how I am.

Welcome to the inner world of my insecurities.

-d

[annasea]

And you know, honestly, I'm afraid sometime that my introverted nature is going to mean that I'm destined to be a single diver for a long, long time to come.  And that's frightening to me, because as wonderful as my tightly-knit group of friends are, I'd really like to share my life with someONE truly special that I may never meet because of how I am.

David,

I'm not trying negate your thoughts on the matter, but I do believe everyone -- whether introverted or extroverted -- feels this at one time or another in their life.

All it takes is finding that one person who *fits* you. Not an easy task, I know! It may not necessarily be forever, just concern yourself with the present and take it from there. In the meantime, don't fret, pet! Just remain *open* and the right woman may find you yet. It may not be the one you were anticipating, but isn't that what makes life interesting? Life can be full of the most pleasant and unexpected surprises!!! (Believe me, this is one thing I know!)

[David Evans]

Well, you're right, of course (as per your usual!).

However, even with my very limited understanding of math, I can discern that I'm going to increase my odds by attending a cocktail party vs. going camping.

A couple of months ago, I was driving down the road and saw a woman driving a Jeep Wrangler. The top was off (the Jeep, that is), her hair was pulled back in a sloppy pony tail tucked under a baseball hat, and on the back of her jeep were two bumper stickers: a "diver down" flag and one that said "I whales!"

I wanted to follow her and propose, but I'm guessing she might not have appreciated that.

Ah well.

-d

[BabyDuck]

aw, but man, too bad you couldn't get to meet her! though i agree the following and proposing thing would likely have been 'bad'...

[Twinklez]

Large groups are wonderful for me socially, but if you cut the numbers down, make it one.  In a large group you can be friendly and cordial but not necessarily personal.  I don't like to let people inside my walls,    with a group of five there are simply too many people with that opportunity.    Pear that down to one and (a) it's easier to deflect, or (b) it's typically someone you might be considering letting in.

I personally hate walls. I don't have any, and I don't like encountering them and I don't like putting them up. Maybe that's part of why I don't like larger social situations? It's not that I have some sort of social anxiety, it's just that I don't enjoy them.

My own feeling is that a large social gathering is exactly as you described it: impersonal, anonymous, cordial, but not deep. I have been told by many friends that I'm a very intense person to get to know... not in the sense of intense meaning that I'm driven or focused or whatever, but rather in the sense of the word that I dig very, very deep into myself and equally deep into the people I really REALLY care about. By intense, I mean that discussions with me can go on for hours about topics like religion, politics, happiness, sex, dating, pet peeves... anything is fair game, and be prepared to explore (and expose) parts of yourself, and me, that some people would rather not have discussed.

I have probably 8 people in my life that I consider my friends... others are just social acquaintances... people that I wouldn't call to have dinner with or hang out with - people that if I never saw again it would be okay with me - just people that I happen to see from time to time. But the 8 people I consider my friends have complete and total access to my heart and know as much about me as I know about myself (maybe more)... and usually I know at least that much about them.

I know everyone has that small group of friends, but I think most people also have a larger group of casual friends... I don't. Furthermore, I don't want to. I'd rather not spend time with "casual friends", because I'd rather spend time with my "real" friends. I see the same small group of people over and over and over again, and am very slow to make new friends because when I do, I make them for life and I trust them with my soul. These are the people that if they needed a kidney, I'd give them one of mine.

I don't like walls either. Not around me, and not between me and those I meet. But I am very aware that I have them, and that others have them as well.

Even though I've been married twice, I've not yet experienced a "best friend" in my spouse. I thought I had or I wouldn't have married; I was mistaken. That won't prevent me from opening up the next time I think I've found the right "one." Until then then though...

My group of "close" friends is even smaller than yours, and infact, at this very moment I am unable to name one person who is not a member of my family that I am willing to bear all for. I have fewer casual friends than I can count on one hand, and the rest are all acquaintances. But I am an extrovert! Go figure...

Like you, I often feel that I don't fit in. I feel awkward. In a group of many that feeling is much easier to mask; but in a group of 5-10 I must open up somewhat and let them in at least a little bit.

This is what's really odd about everything I've said here. There are certainly more than a handful of people reading this thread, and many of the other threads I've posted on. Yet I open up completely! Why is it safe here? I met a man on the internet recently; someone I really liked. When he realized his feelings were similar he stopped writing to me. Later I had the opportunity to meet him without him realizing who I was until it was too late. In that one face-to-face conversation he said to me, "On the internet you can be anybody you want to be." He explained that in person he was simply too shy to be himself, and that he quit writing because he was chicken. We wrote a few more times after that, when he let it slip that he wanted to see me again in person. I've never heard from or seen him since. Our friendship is no longer "safe" for him.

I often wonder if I'll do the same or similar thing when I do meet that "one" person with the ability to break down my walls completely. I hope not.

[annasea]

My group of "close" friends is even smaller than yours, and in fact, at this very moment I am unable to name one person who is not a member of my family that I am willing to bear all for.  I have fewer casual friends than I can count on one hand, and the rest are all acquaintances.  But I am an extrovert!  Go figure...

Like you, I often feel that I don't fit in.  I feel awkward.  In a group of many that feeling is much easier to mask; but in a group of 5-10 I must open up somewhat and let them in at least a little bit. 

Very interesting, as always!

Although I'm not technically an extrovert, I wonder if this might be a bit of an answer regarding your "go figure" query (It probably wasn't literal, but I took it as such.)

I would reckon if you experience discomfort opening up to people, a large crowd would be the ideal place to feel comfortable. I personally detest large crowds because they are so impersonal. I'm not good at small talk -- it bores me -- and generally, in large groups, that's all that's available in terms of conversation. 3 to 4 people is usually my max. I"d rather learn quirky, intimate things about someone and feel that they are interested enough in me to trust me with such tidbits, than sit around and find out what people's weekend plans are. I find it's also a *better* way to make friends with new people. (At least for me.)

This is what's really odd about everything I've said here.  There are certainly more than a handful of people reading this thread, and many of the other threads I've posted on.  Yet I open up completely!  Why is it safe here?

Perhaps because while you are opening up to people here, you're doing so from the safety of your own environment. Also, you're staring at your computer screen, at your own thoughts and those of others, so it may be much less threatening or intimidating than being face-to-face with someone new. Just a thought! As well, you have time to think about what you're writing, whereas in conversation, people generally expect an immediate response.

I met a man on the internet recently; someone I really liked.  When he realized his feelings were similar he stopped writing to me.  Later I had the opportunity to meet him without him realizing who I was until it was too late.  In that one face-to-face conversation he said to me, "On the internet you can be anybody you want to be."  He explained that in person he was simply too shy to be himself, and that he quit writing because he was chicken.  We wrote a few more times after that, when he let it slip that he wanted to see me again in person.  I've never heard from or seen him since.  Our friendship is no longer "safe" for him.

That's unfortunate, Twinklez, for him at least. Regarding his comment above, I would think it would be rather difficult actually ... being "anybody you want to be". Isn't that a bit like lying? Doesn't that become a rather difficult pose to keep up after awhile? Sometimes it's difficult being *authentic*, but I think that comes mainly from people worrying too much about how others perceive them.

Edited by annasea, 27 July 2005 - 01:05 AM.

[Twinklez]

I met a man on the internet recently; someone I really liked.  When he realized his feelings were similar he stopped writing to me.  Later I had the opportunity to meet him without him realizing who I was until it was too late.  In that one face-to-face conversation he said to me, "On the internet you can be anybody you want to be."  He explained that in person he was simply too shy to be himself, and that he quit writing because he was chicken.  We wrote a few more times after that, when he let it slip that he wanted to see me again in person.  I've never heard from or seen him since.  Our friendship is no longer "safe" for him.

That's unfortunate, Twinklez, for him at least. Regarding his comment above, I would think it would be rather difficult actually ... being "anybody you want to be". Isn't that a bit like lying? Doesn't that become a rather difficult pose to keep up after awhile? Sometimes it's difficult being *authentic*, but I think that comes mainly from people worrying too much about how others perceive them.

I think that was the core of the problem, Annasea. He had been "someone else" on the internet and not himself. How could he keep that up in person? I would know the difference, and maybe I would not appreciate him in the same way that I did in our correspondence. He was afraid; at least that's what he said. I believe it...when the words came from his mouth it was as though he could barely whisper them. I liked who he was; not how he communicated who he was. And like him, for me, it is often easier to communicate in writing when I have time to think about what I'm saying carefully. Maybe someday he'll decide to write and say hello, but I don't think it's likely.