123 replies to this topic

[WreckWench]

I would concur with Bill's interpretation: the act of truly celebrating someone else's happiness, even if you're not part of the equation, is an act of true love...

Yes I think this is exactly what true love is...regardless of who the love is for...a child...a parent...a friend and yes...a romantic/lover whom we ourselves may dearly love to have in our lifes but sometimes find that, that is not meant to be.

It poses an interesting question...should you allow yourself to fall in love with someone knowing that if the relationship falls short (aka you aren't the person they love and desire to be with ultimately in the end or vice versa) risking the typical response our outcome of separate which causes pain and hurt to both parties...or do you set your own personal bar so that the only acceptable outcome will be this unconditional love that enables the other person to choose their needed path of happiness regardless of whether it is with you or not?

If we committed to the latter path...the one that is obviously ideal...how many relationships would we really enter into? And how many people would we really profess that we are in love with or allow ourselves to fall in love with?

Perhaps we'd be more cautious of entering a relationship if we adhered to this...and perhaps we'd treat the relationship differently being focused on this new ideal vs. being focused on ourselves.

As David said...when you ask for help either that the Lord's will be done and not your own...or you focus on the "happiness" of the other person rather than your own... you are more likely to reach a greater and more true level of happiness for yourself.

Just absent minded ramblings from a perpetually single female!

[freedivers]

And how many people would we really profess that we are in love with or allow ourselves to fall in love with?

Perhaps we'd be more cautious of entering a relationship if we adhered to this...and perhaps we'd treat the relationship differently being focused on this new ideal vs. being focused on ourselves.

Just absent minded ramblings from a perpetually single female! 

I'll pontificate here since there are what I believe misconceptions regarding the issue of loving someone.

"Falling In Love" is misunderstood or misinterpreted.

Through much reading and processing with a few select close friends (colleagues if you will), it is our belief and I think it is fairly accurate to say the notion of falling in love is specifically a sex-linked erotic experience. To quote again from M. Scott Peck from "The Road Less Traveled":

We fall in love only when we are consciously or unconsciously sexually motivated. The experience of falling in love is invariably temporary. No matter whom we fall in love with, we sooner or later fall out of love if the relationship continues long enough. This is not to say that we invariably ceasr loving the person with whom we fell in love. But it is to say that the feeling of ecstaticlovingness that characterizes the experience of falling in love always passes. The honeymoon always ends. The bloom of romance always fades.

At this point is where Peck states that once that has occurred, "...real love often occurs in a context in which the feeling of love is lacking, when we act lovingly despite the fact we don't feel like loving".

I myself have felt these emotions - felt them completely - and been DEEPLY disappointed by expectations I had that were unrealistic due to the myth perpetrated by the media, Hollywood, etc.

There can be romance, there can be those moments of bliss, but to truly love someone is when the feelings arent there, when we make a choice to love - that is the place of true work, connectedness, peace within a committed relationship.

I do not truly believe you can love someone unconditionally - we all have a condition for falling in love with someone - usually the condition being that they will love us back and want to continue that relationship. Ther eis always some agenda for loving someone - no matter how small it may seem - it is still an agenda - a condition. To state otherwise, well............

[Walter]

Pretty cynical outlook.

[freedivers]

Pretty cynical outlook.

Actually far from it.

I still am a true romantic at heart, but there also needs to be balance in the practical aspects of being in a committed relationship.

It has been my experience personally and with others whom I have worked semi-professionally with alongside my mentor that many people have unrealistic expectations of romance and what happens when you "NEED" someone in your life. No one should "NEED" someone to be complete. In that same way, you should not look to someone for your happiness. One should be at peace and happy with themselves - and see that being in a healthy committed relationship brings higher levels of satisfaction to ones own and their partners life.

If the relationship does end, there will be various levels of natural disappointment, but I think that too many induce drama into their lives when there doesn't need to be due to the myth behind "Romantic Falling In Love" as portrayed in the media.

In reading another book entitled "Telling Yourself The Truth", it exposes how the majority of people are emotionally dishonest not only with others, but even with themselves. TO be honest with ones self is not an easy task for the majority of the world, but to learn the skills of doing so does free one from the myths and misperceptions that permeate our ever stressed out society.

I do not profess to know it all, but I have studied human behavior for a number of years and my observations and interactions with people have confirmed what I have expressed in only a small amount of detail so far.

There is always the human part of the equation - we all have a deep desire for connectedness - that is a given. That humanity aspect always involves deep feelings of emotion. I also experience that as well. The challenge is when it isn't balanced with a clear perspective of the skills required to be with someone in a healthy and mutually respective way.

Edited by freedivers, 26 August 2005 - 12:38 PM.

[annasea]

While I agree that it sounds cynical, I'd also agree that there are some valid points that Cliff and his *colleagues* make.

I agree that some people have a tendency to buy into and expect Hollywood's version of love. Relationships take work and in this disposable, instant gratification world that we live in, most people don't want to make the effort, or even understand that there is a reason or need for even making such an effort.

I think the initial reaction -- "Wow! You're so great!!" of falling in love wears off, obviously, but I don't think the *romance* needs to die out completely. If so, wouldn't you almost be in a situation where you're living with or married to a *sibling* rather than *lover*? Where's the point in that??

I believe romance is still possible -- it just needs more work and effort than it originally did. Initially, you didn't really know the other person and part of the allure was the *unknown*. Now that you're hip to them and all their faults, part of the mystery has disappeared (although we never really can know another entirely), but from knowing another so well, I think it takes the relationship to a different level, and hence romance is still possible.

[freedivers]

While I agree that it sounds cynical, I'd also agree that there are some valid points that Cliff and his *colleagues* make.

I agree that some people have a tendency to buy into and expect Hollywood's version of love. Relationships take work and in this disposable, instant gratification world that we live in, most people don't want to make the effort, or even understand that there is a reason or need for even making such an effort.

I think the initial reaction -- "Wow! You're so great!!" of falling in love wears off, obviously, but I don't think the *romance* needs to die out completely. If so, wouldn't you almost be in a situation where you're living with or married to a *sibling* rather than *lover*? Where's the point in that??

I believe romance is still possible -- it just needs more work and effort than it originally did. Initially, you didn't really know the other person and part of the allure was the *unknown*. Now that you're hip to them and all their faults, part of the mystery has disappeared (although we never really can know another entirely), but from knowing another so well, I think it takes the relationship to a different level, and hence romance is still possible.

Like I said, I am a romantic - thru & thru.

I want the romance to last forever if I had my way, but being faced with the reality of being a human being, I know I can fail in that area, so it takes the creative mind to come up with ways to keep the candle burning

[annasea]

Like I said, I am a romantic - thru & thru.

I want the romance to last forever if I had my way, but being faced with the reality of being a human being, I know I can fail in that area, so it takes the creative mind to come up with ways to keep the candle burning 

And I'm sure you're very creative!

[freedivers]

Like I said, I am a romantic - thru & thru.

I want the romance to last forever if I had my way, but being faced with the reality of being a human being, I know I can fail in that area, so it takes the creative mind to come up with ways to keep the candle burning 

And I'm sure you're very creative!

VERY creative...

Edited by freedivers, 26 August 2005 - 12:53 PM.

[Walter]

If you expect the romance to end, it will. If you expect "The experience of falling in love is invariably temporary." to be true, it will be true - for you. Get away from a self centered outlook on life and you can experience a life long love. That doesn't mean you won't have to put effort into your relationship, it doesn't mean you won't have issues and problems, but you can be in love for the rest of your life, if you both make it your first priority in life. Yes, I think you are very cynical, I hope you recover from the affliction.

[freedivers]

you can be in love for the rest of your life, if you both make it your first priority in life. Yes, I think you are very cynical, I hope you recover from the affliction.

I agree with you completely on being in love the rest of your life.

No comment on the rest of your assessment of who you think I am.

[Walter]

It's not who you are, it's what you express.

[freedivers]

It's not who you are, it's what you express.

case closed on this - ok?

[Maria]

Hey boys, this is a thread about love...we all think about love, what it should feel like and how it should be handled in many different ways. It's good to learn what other people think and how they feel about love.

Let's just hear everybody's opinions and experiences and learn from them instead of criticizing them.

[freedivers]

Hey boys, this is a thread about love...we all think about love, what it should feel like and how it should be handled in many different ways.  It's good to learn what other people think and how they feel about love. 

Let's just hear everybody's opinions and experiences and learn from them instead of criticizing them.

Did I just hear the snap of a whip??? :anna:

Thanks for moving this back on track..

btw - luv the quote in your sig..

Edited by freedivers, 26 August 2005 - 01:36 PM.

[Walter]

Hey boys, this is a thread about love...we all think about love, what it should feel like and how it should be handled in many different ways. It's good to learn what other people think and how they feel about love.

Let's just hear everybody's opinions and experiences and learn from them instead of criticizing them.

Darlin', that's what we're doing.