73 replies to this topic

[Basslet]

Roughly, I see things this way too (with variations)....

No doubt we will be the cause of our own demise by our I'm not convinced that 'greenpeace' is all that it claims to be (like many other organizations, I think there is a level of corruption within even them that would shock us) . I'm just guessing that quite a few of the members don't (and won't) carpool... drive great big gas guzzling S.U.V's to any protest (make a mess while they are there for someone else to clean up)... toss their trash (like cigarette butts) out the window so as not to dirty up their expensive SUV..... Waste energy at every opportunity because they can afford to... Basically Hypocrites.... with a cause... Don't misunderstand though .... I do believe in the idea and what it means (and admire those who truly practice it) .... just sometimes frustrated at the futility....

and the $7000 fine is almost laughable....Where'd they pull that out of?

Exxon's troubles (my opinion) came as much from greed as from ignorance and stupidity. Can't spend anything on a precaution like a double hull. To listen to the gas companies, they are just barely scraping by as it is.

OK....enough foaming at the mouth for me...

These are just your assumptions. You have absolutely nothing to prove any of these assertions.
BTW, I read in Time Magazine that the oil companies profits last year were $4 billion.

[drdiver]

P.S. I don't want to shock anyone but the state of the planet is just fine. Earth was here for 4 billion years before we showed up - and will probably be here for 4 billion after we kill ourselves off. It's the state of humans and the lifestyle we enjoy that is in danger.

Errrrr, in case you hadn't noticed, we're PART of the planet too, all 6 billion of us.

It's all connected.

[ScubaHawk]

P.S. I don't want to shock anyone but the state of the planet is just fine. Earth was here for 4 billion years before we showed up - and will probably be here for 4 billion after we kill ourselves off. It's the state of humans and the lifestyle we enjoy that is in danger.

Errrrr, in case you hadn't noticed, we're PART of the planet too, all 6 billion of us.

It's all connected.

So were the dinosaurs.

I know it's all connected, that's the problem. I'm more worried about saving my species, the planet has proved that it can take care of itself - unless we invent the Death Star some other species will emerge and run things.

[jholley309]

I'm more worried about saving my species, the planet has proved that it can take care of itself - unless we invent the Death Star some other species will emerge and run things.

Dolphins! Or perhaps those little white mice; you know, the ones that are merely a projection into our dimension of a race of hyper-intelligent beings.

"So long, and thanks for all the fish!"

(Don't tell me you haven't read any of Douglas Adams' Hitchhikers Trilogy books?!)

All I can say about it being a Greenpeace vessel to hit the reef (just the latest in a long line, I'm sure) is...

OOPS! At least they didn't make the local equivalent of the Coast Guard hunt them down, like all the yacht owning, weekend mariner wannbe's that keep carving up the reefs in the Keys. Good on ya, mates!

Say, what doooo they run that honkin' big vessel with, anyway?

Cheers!

Jim

[ScubaHawk]

(Don't tell me you haven't read any of Douglas Adams' Hitchhikers Trilogy books?!)

42

Say, what doooo they run that honkin' big vessel with, anyway?

Sperm Whale oil

KIDDING - just kidding, put down the pitch forks and torches.

[drdiver]

P.S. I don't want to shock anyone but the state of the planet is just fine. Earth was here for 4 billion years before we showed up - and will probably be here for 4 billion after we kill ourselves off. It's the state of humans and the lifestyle we enjoy that is in danger.

Errrrr, in case you hadn't noticed, we're PART of the planet too, all 6 billion of us.

It's all connected.

So were the dinosaurs.

I know it's all connected, that's the problem. I'm more worried about saving my species, the planet has proved that it can take care of itself - unless we invent the Death Star some other species will emerge and run things.

If you're worried you should do something.positive. I don't think ridiculing Greenpeace over an accident is positive. You can say that Greenpeace's approach isn't positive (and to some extent I agree with you) but it's not an easy task changing social and economic forces. Some of the things they do are no different than Rosa Parks taking a seat at the front of bus. And the people who say they're corrupt--boy I can tell you few stories about the oil industry that I know first hand are true. There are innumerable organiizations dedicated to environmental change to suit anyone's level of involvement and committment and political inclination. Last year, I committed 10% of my income to environmental organizations. GET INVOLVED--MAKE A DIFFERENCE. And if people are upset over Greenpeace's diesel engine--remember that diesel and turbines can be run on renewable fuels. They may not have been available where they were, but biodiesel is a viable concept with increasing usage.

To paraphrase Dante, "the hottest places in hell are reserved for the people who didn't do anything".

I wouldn't count the human race out. The comparison with dinosaurs is not valid at all. We are adaptable, smart, tough and mean. I am personally quite optimistic about the future--even if Manhattan turns into a bodacious dive site. (think about that Rockefeller Center swim though!!!)

Edited by drdiver, 02 November 2005 - 10:01 PM.

[annasea]

Last year, I committed 10% of my income to environmental organizations.  GET INVOLVED--MAKE A DIFFERENCE. 

One easy way to do this is to make monthly contributions to your favourite organization(s) via your credit card. It's convenient, and you can earn travel points!

Another way is to click HERE and sign the Oceans Charter. :anna:

[normblitch]

P.S. I don't want to shock anyone but the state of the planet is just fine. Earth was here for 4 billion years before we showed up - and will probably be here for 4 billion after we kill ourselves off. It's the state of humans and the lifestyle we enjoy that is in danger.

Errrrr, in case you hadn't noticed, we're PART of the planet too, all 6 billion of us.

It's all connected.

So were the dinosaurs.

I know it's all connected, that's the problem. I'm more worried about saving my species, the planet has proved that it can take care of itself - unless we invent the Death Star some other species will emerge and run things.

If you're worried you should do something.positive. I don't think ridiculing Greenpeace over an accident is positive. You can say that Greenpeace's approach isn't positive (and to some extent I agree with you) but it's not an easy task changing social and economic forces. Some of the things they do are no different than Rosa Parks taking a seat at the front of bus. And the people who say they're corrupt--boy I can tell you few stories about the oil industry that I know first hand are true. There are innumerable organiizations dedicated to environmental change to suit anyone's level of involvement and committment and political inclination. Last year, I committed 10% of my income to environmental organizations. GET INVOLVED--MAKE A DIFFERENCE. And if people are upset over Greenpeace's diesel engine--remember that diesel and turbines can be run on renewable fuels. They may not have been available where they were, but biodiesel is a viable concept with increasing usage.

To paraphrase Dante, "the hottest places in hell are reserved for the people who didn't do anything".

I wouldn't count the human race out. The comparison with dinosaurs is not valid at all. We are adaptable, smart, tough and mean. I am personally quite optimistic about the future--even if Manhattan turns into a bodacious dive site. (think about that Rockefeller Center swim though!!!)

Norm

[Basslet]

I am personally quite optimistic about the future--even if Manhattan turns into a bodacious dive site. (think about that Rockefeller Center swim though!!!)

I'm up for that dive.

[casematic]

These are just your assumptions. You have absolutely nothing to prove any of these assertions.
BTW, I read in Time Magazine that the oil companies profits last year were $4 billion.

Correct..... Those are just my perceptions... no factual data to back it up, but that perception is based on things I have seen 1st hand... I grew up in the oil field... around lots of drilling and production wells ... and I seem to remember a protest by those same people I refer to when there was going to be some exploratory drilling (closer to where they lived) .... They were protesting the exploration, but they were perfectly willing to each drive their own car to the location (no car pooling) They were perfectly happy to burn the fuel, they just didn't want the production close to them ... and they left such a mess of papers and cans, etc... that the gas company had a roustabout crew there the next day on clean-up duty....

Yes, I know that I lumped all into one category... and I know there are lots of 'real' conservationists out there - those I respect - and many of them may very well be in greenpeace (accept my apology if I have in some way stepped on your toes)..... I still would not be surprised to find out the some of the upper management is taking home high 6 figure or even 7 figure incomes in the name of charity (the hidden corruption I spoke of).

Remember the 'Gas shortage' of the 70's. Gas went from 30 cents to over a dollar in a few months. once it got above a dollar you could buy as much as you wanted again. Seems to me the shortage was a 'staged' thing .... and not to promote awareness .....

and only 4 billion in profit...... It's in print, but I doubt that it's true. I burn gas too, but I do try to conserve in many energy and resource areas where I can.

Guess thats more like my 3 cents worth

[drdiver]

If you'd like some info on who makes the bucks in environmental organizations and if it's out of line, Click here

I use this group's website as one of the guidelines in my own giving.

(and yes, Greenpeace doesn't come out looking too good--them and a couple of others.)

Edited by drdiver, 03 November 2005 - 12:33 PM.

[casematic]

Thanks Drdiver.... Thats just the ticket for keeping things in line

if a person gives... it would be nice to know that it is going to help something instead of into someones pockets.... (although I was surprised that the salaries weren't higher in some of them)..

[Basslet]

If you'd like some info on who makes the bucks in environmental organizations and if it's out of line, Click here

I use this group's website as one of the guidelines in my own giving.

(and yes, Greenpeace doesn't come out looking too good--them and a couple of others.)

You have got to be joking me. This "watchdog" group who did this study, (whomever they are) thinks $70,600+ is an outrageous salary for the top dog in an international conservation group? Give me a break. Just for fun, does this "watchdog" group look up the salaries and compensation given to the the top dogs of the United Way, Red Cross or even tax-exempt "religious" organizations? You want to have your hair stand up on end and vow never to give another dollar to those organizations? Look them up.

As for Casematic's contention that the anti oil people who were demonstating were "conservationists" I think a more realistic interpretation would be that they were NIMBY's. Big difference.

Edited by Fairybasslet, 03 November 2005 - 01:50 PM.

[cmt489]

Salaries don't bother me, espeically if they are published. After all, you tend to get what your pay for.

OTOH, what does bother me is some of the tactics that some of these groups use. I donate to charities, I volunteer, I support environmental causes, I conserve energy by making good choices such as living close enough to walk to work and recycling, but I don't condone the, for lack of a better word, terror tactics used by some of these groups.

[Basslet]

Salaries don't bother me, espeically if they are published. After all, you tend to get what your pay for.

OTOH, what does bother me is some of the tactics that some of these groups use. I donate to charities, I volunteer, I support environmental causes, I conserve energy by making good choices such as living close enough to walk to work and recycling, but I don't condone the, for lack of a better word, terror tactics used by some of these groups.

To tell you the truth, I don't know much about Greenpeace's recent activities. I do know hthey used to put their boats between whales and the whale fishermen. And it think it was them who painted the pelts of the baby harp seals so they would be clubbed and skinned. I don't think those are terror tactics.