69 replies to this topic

[Twinklez]

. . . I'd decided that the next one would have to already be an active diver and we all know how that limits our choices.

You know, the active diver clause does limit the choices, but what wonderful choices they are!

AIDS: Aquatic Induced Divorce Syndrome

See...if I don't want AIDS then if I'm ever to fall in love again, he MUST be a diver!

[Diverbrian]

For me, the problem seems to be convincing the woman that I'm not the guy that caused you your heartache--stop lumping me in with him.

The question is "Are you the man that can help to heal it?" (and who wants to help)

No matter how much I'd like to say I can fix my broken heart on my own, I know that I need to meet someone I'm willing to place my trust in and that person has to do their part by validating that I've placed my trust in the right heart for a change. For that it takes two, and both have to be willing to risk.

Unfortunately, I disagree on part of this. I feel that if we are dependent on someone else to heal our wounds then we are not yet whole enough for a relationship. Indeed we are a liability.

I have tried to go out of my way in the past to be this person. It didn't work. I am responsible for being a complete person before I enter into a commitment. She is responsible as well for healing her own heartaches.

This is why I said that any future relationship that I enter into will likely take years to form. It will give both of us time to verify that the other is ready without the emotional confusion of a physical relationship. It will allow me to make decisions with a clear mind, not cluttered with the emotional (and physical at that point) neediness involved with a physical relationship.

The best relationships in my mind are formed by two people that can happily stand alone, but choose to stand together.

I do agree that both have to be able to risk. When I was willing to risk, the partner that I chose at the time wasn't and vice versa.

The title of the thread is closer than one might think to fact. Survivors of abusive relationships often need help that they don't think that they need. The same rules that you learn to survive under abuse will hurt you in a healthy relationship.

For instance, don't say anything unsolicited as you may incur the wrath of the SO (or in a child's case the parent). Well, that is a survival trait in that kind of relationship. In a otherwise healthy one, it closes off communication and that WILL doom the relationship.

Another one, shut off your feelings so that your abuser can't hurt them (after all they don't mean it in the morning. We all know that! <sarcasm intended>.). Again, your mate will never know you or your likes/dislikes. But it allows you to survive when being yelled at or hit.

Those that have been through this know the list better than those who don't. The biggest rule that you learn is to NEVER, EVER trust anyone not to try to hurt you.

But, the bottom line is that the survival traits that make you "tough enough" to survive abusive relationships kill off communications and trust while becoming ingrained in one's personality. This is one reason why so many children of abusers/addicts wind up with abusers/addicts. These seem normal to one who grows up in them.

Post Tramautic Stress Sydrome is often not a bad description of people who have been raised in or altered by being in an abusive environment. Some psychologists actually use these words to describe that situation.

I admit to still drawing back when a voice is raised, expecting to get called vile things. Many physical abuse victims will still draw back at first if a hand comes up to caress a cheek (Thank God that I got out before it got that far with the last one). With help, I have improved, but I will always have a touch of those bad habits. It is my responsibility to fight them, not my mate's to keep them in mind all of the time.

Anyways, if you think that you need to heal for whatever reason, don't be afraid to do it however you have to. If it takes help, please get it. Even if it doesn't, it may take a bit more time. It will likely take work on yourself.

It doesn't mean that you are staying out of relationships for good. It means that you making yourself ready for the good, healthy one that you deserve. I feel that much like learning. When we are ready for a relationship, our mate will appear soon thereafter.

[annasea]

So far, we are only hearing from people that would be willing participants. What about the ones who say that they have given up, and they don't want to try again?

Howard,

I think you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone who sincerely will admit to feeling this way... permanently. I believe even the most *cynical*, *bitter* and hurt among us wants to *believe*.

On a related note, I found the most wonderful quote from Mignon McLaughlin while reading Rob Brezsny's Free Will this past week:

"The hardest-learned lesson is that people have only their kind of love to give, not our kind."

[Twinklez]

For me, the problem seems to be convincing the woman that I'm not the guy that caused you your heartache--stop lumping me in with him.

The question is "Are you the man that can help to heal it?" (and who wants to help)

No matter how much I'd like to say I can fix my broken heart on my own, I know that I need to meet someone I'm willing to place my trust in and that person has to do their part by validating that I've placed my trust in the right heart for a change. For that it takes two, and both have to be willing to risk.

Unfortunately, I disagree on part of this. I feel that if we are dependent on someone else to heal our wounds then we are not yet whole enough for a relationship. Indeed we are a liability.

No need to disagree... I didn't intend to sound as though I want the other person to participate in the "healing" part, but more the validation side. Let me heal my heartache, but then when I place my trust in you, please don't bit. I want to come out from behind the wall....for me, and I'd like you (whoever "you" is) to be there when I do. If you still think I'm not on target here...please tell me.

I've worn the "tough enough" t-shirt more times than I'd like to count from my childhood through the present. In my last relationship I took it off long enough to get slammed pretty hard, and though my reaction is to slip it back on I managed to stop myself with only one arm through.

I don't think it's something a person should "fight" but more a person needs to understand about themselves. You see, people who've worn the t-shirt have been fighting all their lives. That's what we need to stop doing. Instead of fighting, isn't it best to just walk away with our head held high being proud of ourselves for now cowering, yet not participating either. Remember, typically the other person is looking for a participant, so if you "fight" or show resistence you're participating. Walk away...run if you have to, but not our of fear...out of pride for who you are.

The whole list...that's a great topic for another thread...I bet we all know of at least one unique defense we've used.

[Twinklez]

So far, we are only hearing from people that would be willing participants. What about the ones who say that they have given up, and they don't want to try again?

Howard,

I think you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone who sincerely will admit to feeling this way... permanently. I believe even the most *cynical*, *bitter* and hurt among us wants to *believe*.

On a related note, I found the most wonderful quote from Mignon McLaughlin while reading Rob Brezsny's Free Will this past week:

"The hardest-learned lesson is that people have only their kind of love to give, not our kind."

Hmmmm....one of my pitfalls. Those of us on the "though enough" roster, also tend to make excuses for the ones we love. In doing so, we will convince ourselves that what he or she is doing (or not doing) is the only way they can show us their love.

My second husband was very jealous and insecure. He said he was being protective. At first, I took his protectiveness as a form of flattery - "he loves me THAT much!" It was not flattery, it was awful! He was not protective, he was possessive, and jealous and insecure. I spent my days trying to prove to him he didn't need to be so "protective." It first stifled me, and then crushed me when I found out that his thinking was based on his own actions. He was doing what he was accusing me of doing.

It is true, people show their love in many different ways. Learning to take off the rose-colored glasses when determining if what we're seeing from our partner is love, even if not our kind, is a very hard thing to do. Though it must be done, lest we fool ourselves right into another heartache!

Edited by Twinklez, 16 February 2006 - 06:29 AM.

[finley]

For me, the problem seems to be convincing the woman that I'm not the guy that caused you your heartache--stop lumping me in with him.

The question is "Are you the man that can help to heal it?" (and who wants to help)

No matter how much I'd like to say I can fix my broken heart on my own, I know that I need to meet someone I'm willing to place my trust in and that person has to do their part by validating that I've placed my trust in the right heart for a change. For that it takes two, and both have to be willing to risk.

Unfortunately, I disagree on part of this. I feel that if we are dependent on someone else to heal our wounds then we are not yet whole enough for a relationship. Indeed we are a liability.

No need to disagree... I didn't intend to sound as though I want the other person to participate in the "healing" part, but more the validation side. Let me heal my heartache, but then when I place my trust in you, please don't bit. I want to come out from behind the wall....for me, and I'd like you (whoever "you" is) to be there when I do. If you still think I'm not on target here...please tell me.

I've worn the "tough enough" t-shirt more times than I'd like to count from my childhood through the present. In my last relationship I took it off long enough to get slammed pretty hard, and though my reaction is to slip it back on I managed to stop myself with only one arm through.

I don't think it's something a person should "fight" but more a person needs to understand about themselves. You see, people who've worn the t-shirt have been fighting all their lives. That's what we need to stop doing. Instead of fighting, isn't it best to just walk away with our head held high being proud of ourselves for now cowering, yet not participating either. Remember, typically the other person is looking for a participant, so if you "fight" or show resistence you're participating. Walk away...run if you have to, but not our of fear...out of pride for who you are.

The whole list...that's a great topic for another thread...I bet we all know of at least one unique defense we've used.

I don't really even want to discuss who did what to who with my "new guy" (if one ever appears" either on my end or theirs..... what we ALL have to understand...is that bad relationships, just like good ones become part of our personalities. So that at our age...we have all been hurt in one form or another so we can't expect to find the''fall head over heals...jump off a cliff..live and die for me" attitudes of our youth....but a more mature, cautious realistic and maybe even picky (narrowed requirements) ,less risky approach

[Twinklez]

I don't really even want to discuss who did what to who with my "new guy" (if one ever appears" either on my end or theirs..... what we ALL have to understand...is that bad relationships, just like good ones become part of our personalities. So that at our age...we have all been hurt in one form or another so we can't expect to find the''fall head over heals...jump off a cliff..live and die for me" attitudes of our youth....but a more mature, cautious realistic and maybe even picky (narrowed requirements) ,less risky approach

I agree so long as we are mindful as to just "how" those bad relationships become a part of us. In no way should they end up as baggage that we tow along, instead serve as lessons of our mistakes. Like John indicated earlier, the man in front of you is not the man who hurt you. If you've towed baggage instead of learning lessons, it's likely you've picked the same type of sheep even if in different wool, and will likely be hurt again. If you've learned lessons and kicked the baggage to the curb, this man before you has been chose for completely different reasons than the earlier one and will not be anything like him at all.

[Diverbrian]

For me, the problem seems to be convincing the woman that I'm not the guy that caused you your heartache--stop lumping me in with him.

The question is "Are you the man that can help to heal it?" (and who wants to help)

No matter how much I'd like to say I can fix my broken heart on my own, I know that I need to meet someone I'm willing to place my trust in and that person has to do their part by validating that I've placed my trust in the right heart for a change. For that it takes two, and both have to be willing to risk.

Unfortunately, I disagree on part of this. I feel that if we are dependent on someone else to heal our wounds then we are not yet whole enough for a relationship. Indeed we are a liability.

No need to disagree... I didn't intend to sound as though I want the other person to participate in the "healing" part, but more the validation side. Let me heal my heartache, but then when I place my trust in you, please don't bit. I want to come out from behind the wall....for me, and I'd like you (whoever "you" is) to be there when I do. If you still think I'm not on target here...please tell me.

I've worn the "tough enough" t-shirt more times than I'd like to count from my childhood through the present. In my last relationship I took it off long enough to get slammed pretty hard, and though my reaction is to slip it back on I managed to stop myself with only one arm through.

I don't think it's something a person should "fight" but more a person needs to understand about themselves. You see, people who've worn the t-shirt have been fighting all their lives. That's what we need to stop doing. Instead of fighting, isn't it best to just walk away with our head held high being proud of ourselves for now cowering, yet not participating either. Remember, typically the other person is looking for a participant, so if you "fight" or show resistence you're participating. Walk away...run if you have to, but not our of fear...out of pride for who you are.

The whole list...that's a great topic for another thread...I bet we all know of at least one unique defense we've used.

Understood.

That list (and more traits that I won't mention here and now) came out of life experience and three years of work aimed at getting healed enough so that I would stop choosing "Ms. Wrong" (and not just someone who was wrong for me). I am far from perfectly healed. As you say, many things will forever be part of my personality to a smaller degree. But being aware of them allows me to recognize them and walk away from the scene instead of making excuses. So, I am far from where I was as well (that is a good thing ).

When I say that it is my responsibility to fight some of these traits, I mean that it is my responsibility to not draw back and shut down when I argue with a loved one simply because a voice gets raised. It is also my responsibility to not simply walk away from that arguement, but to walk away for the right reasons. Those are my reactions and I control them. Obviously, this is only one example of behavior that needs to monitored in myself by me.

Again, I know that when I have done sufficient work and healed enough, one day that person will placed in front of me. Think of the martial arts saying "When the student is ready, the master will appear." In the meantime the best that I can do is work on my my own attitudes and behaviors so that my next relationship will be as good as some of the married (and formerly married, but widowed) people have enjoyed for years.

[Basslet]

I think the quoting on this thread has gotten out of hand.
I'll be totally honest. I just wanna get some.

[intotheblue]

I think the quoting on this thread has gotten out of hand.
I'll be totally honest. I just wanna get some.

Ahhhh, so you are not looking for Mr. RIGHT..... but rather MR. Right Now!

[Basslet]

"Life's a banquet and most sons of bitches are starving to death!"

[intotheblue]

"Life's a banquet and most sons of bitches are starving to death!"

I'm sure if you are providing a smorgasbord, you will find a starvin' marvin somewhere close by...

[ScubaHawk]

So far, we are only hearing from people that would be willing participants. What about the ones who say that they have given up, and they don't want to try again?

I ain't looking, I ain't tryin', it's ain't worth the headaches. If it does happen, it will be a miracle.

[Basslet]

I'm sure if you are providing a smorgasbord, you will find a starvin' marvin somewhere close by...

I think you missed the point of Auntie Mame's famous line. The fact is, there's a whole lot of fun to be had all round you in life, (sexual and non-sexual) and most people are too wrapped up in their angst to enjoy what life has to offer.

[finley]

I'm sure if you are providing a smorgasbord, you will find a starvin' marvin somewhere close by...

I think you missed the point of Auntie Mame's famous line. The fact is, there's a whole lot of fun to be had all round you in life, (sexual and non-sexual) and most people are too wrapped up in their angst to enjoy what life has to offer.

Your Aunt is very wise...