61 replies to this topic

[gcbryan]

30lbs of weight? what are these people---beach balls? Its hard for me to think someone needs that much weight. for anything.

It depends where you are diving of course. I use 24 lbs with a 5 lb backplate and steel 119 tanks. In cold water with a drysuit and undergarments you will use a bit of weight.

[Dive_Girl]

That's OW training for ya...

People convince themselves they need all that weight, and they don't.

I believe it's a little out of turn to be contributing overweighting only on OW training. Some people need to take some personal responsiblity in the part they take in deviating from proper training. I have had students adamently argue with me that they NEED more weight. I, for one, do not overweight my OW students. I make them work at it - EXHALE EXHALE EXHALE, of and quit kicking!! I cannot, however, police them after OW training. Some have admitted to using more weight after class because it's "easier."

[Dive_Girl]

30lbs of weight? what are these people---beach balls? Its hard for me to think someone needs that much weight. for anything.

It depends where you are diving of course. I use 24 lbs with a 5 lb backplate and steel 119 tanks. In cold water with a drysuit and undergarments you will use a bit of weight.

exactly gcbryan! People, please remember this board has members from all over the world in almost every type of diving environment. What is the norm in your area may not be the norm in another and to place some norms onto divers not in your area may not always be appropriate.

Just as it is dangerous to wear too much weight, it can be just as dangerous to skimp on the weight you need. In fact going down may be safer in some instances than going up in an unconrtolled manner. So divers, wear the weight YOU need.

[drbill]

Have I posted here already? Too lazy to look through all the posts.

I use an HP120 tank and 36# of lead to get me down and stable on the bottom. Since I've been diving the same gear configuration winter and summer, nothing changes. When I travel, I re-weight myself although I still have a pretty good sense of what I need from past experience. I don't dive freshwater though.

[peterbj7]

The 36lb in Cozumel, and the initial 30lb here in Belize, were both with thin wetsuits, aluminum tank, and normal warm-water recreational gear. Apart from anything else, where do you put that much lead?

I think the maximum I ever used, in UK drysuit diving with a steel 12ltr tank, was 12 kilos. I reduced that to 8kilos with the same gear configuration.

My biggest problem with weighting is actually with an Inspiration. In the warm water here I don't need any additional weight, but as Inspirations are so tail-heavy most people stuff lead into the top. I find to get an acceptable attitude in the water I have to do the same, which then makes me too negative and means I have to have air in the BC, which I hate.

[PerroneFord]

Peter,

Why not look into some of the flotation materials explored by other rebreather manufacturers? The KISS Sport has the same issue. I spoke with Kim Smith of Jetsam at the NSSCDS convention when she was talking about how they've been working on a foam insert (she's been testing something) to assist this problem. The Ouroboros has this issue as well and Kevin Gurr has been doing something similar.

Maybe pop something on RBW.

[PerroneFord]

I believe it's a little out of turn to be contributing overweighting only on OW training.

Ah yes, I forgot. I'm sorry.

I've HEARD that some OW instructors tend to overweight students as it makes it easier to kneel in one place on the bottom or on a platform and keep them still for class. I've also HEARD that some of these students tend to write down this weight in their logbooks as instructed, and continue to dive in this overweighted condition well beyond class.

I know that responsible OW instructors don't follow this pattern of behavior and take the time to properly weight students in the confined water session so that their students can learn the benefits of neutral buoyancy and proper trim.

So perhaps the students in Belize wearing 30# of weight with their 3mm suits and AL80 tank were simply going against their training, or perhaps they found diving with a 30# weightbelt somehow easier. Since I can't fathom anyone "wanting" to wear 30 pounds of weight on a tropical vacation dive, my pesonal feeling is that they had some other malady, or they might have been misinformed about how to properly weight themselves in the water.

[Twinklez]

When I dove Catalina last year I asked my instructor before going how much weight he thought I'd need. I had gotten down to 4# at Clear Springs with an AL80 and just my bathing suit. His answer was 16#. When I got to Catalina I had a choice of aluminum or steel tank. I had no clue of the differences so I chose aluminum since that's what I had been diving. I had the 5mil Pinnacle Fusion that I love soooo much, a full hood and gloves. The guy at the equipment rental booth set me up with a BC and weight belt with 25# of weight. When I told him my instructor said I'd need 16# he just laughed at me.

So here I go into the water with 15# (3 - 5# weights). Bill and I swim out a ways and we start out descent, and we start, and we start, and I'm not going anywhere...Bill is tugging at me and I'm still not going anywhere...I exhale, exhale, exhale and swim as hard as I can with my hands and I get down about 5 ft, Bill lets go and I float back up! Ok...hold on, out of the water and up to the jeep where I add another 5# to my belt...surely that will do. Back in the water I must work a little, but am able to descend and once I get a little depth everything starts to compress and I'm find...until it's time for me safety at the end of the dive near the shore line with a little surge an aluminum tank with a lot less air. I ended up stretching out flat on the ocean floor with Bill sprawled across me to hold me down for three minutes. Thank goodness for gentleman!

Next dive I added the additional 5# and was much more comfortable going down and coming up, holding a safety on my own but still with a bit of effort.

Granted it was my first time in the ocean....there was a lot to get used to, and I'm told the Pacific has a higher level of salt causing one to be a little more bouyant than they might be on the East Coast or in the Gulf; but hey...25#!!!!

If I dove the ocean on a continual basis I'm sure I would learn to reduce that number in time, but I don't. So until I can, I'll dive a little more weight than I need to ensure that I can hold that stop and come up safely.

[annasea]

Have I posted here already? Too lazy to look through all the posts.

Well then! Have I got a tip for you!

When you view the New Posts page, for example, you'll see a heading entitled Replies. If you click on the number of replies for a particular thread, you can see who posted as well as how many times.

[drbill]

Have I posted here already? Too lazy to look through all the posts.

Well then! Have I got a tip for you!

When you view the New Posts page, for example, you'll see a heading entitled Replies. If you click on the number of replies for a particular thread, you can see who posted as well as how many times.

But how would I accelerate my post count if I did that, dear Caetllonn? Did you read Tina's post... ahem, a gentleman. Thanks, Tina!

[annasea]

Have I posted here already? Too lazy to look through all the posts.

Well then! Have I got a tip for you!

When you view the New Posts page, for example, you'll see a heading entitled Replies. If you click on the number of replies for a particular thread, you can see who posted as well as how many times.

But how would I accelerate my post count if I did that, dear Caetllonn? Did you read Tina's post... ahem, a gentleman. Thanks, Tina!

Yeah, I read it. You can be sure that I'll be wearing tonnes of lead!

[dad+2(.5)]

I stand slightly corrected and have learnd something new...not being familiar with drysuits, I cant say anything about that...but in freash water and a 3mil I use 8# ...so I cant see 30# happening in my neighborhood...unless that person moonligths as an anchor...wow dry suits add that much boyancy?

[PerroneFord]

Drysuits have no inherent buoyancy at all, unless you are talking about neoprene ones. But the undergarments do add buoyancy. And since you can choose your undergarment, the buoyancy they add is related to the weight of the undergarment.

For warm water, generally a light fleece undergarment is chosen, and not much buoyancy is added. However, for diving in very cold water, very heavy undergarments are chosen, and they can be quite buoyant.

If you dive with a neoprene drysuit, and very heavy undergarments, you can indeed find yourself wearing a LOT of lead.

[Geek]

I stand slightly corrected and have learnd something new...not being familiar with drysuits, I cant say anything about that...but in freash water and a 3mil I use 8# ...so I cant see 30# happening in my neighborhood...unless that person moonligths as an anchor...wow dry suits add that much boyancy?

The standard wetsuit in this area is 7mm farmer john style, which gives you 14mm around the core of your body. Combine this with aluminum tanks, jacket style BCs, etc. and 20-30 lbs in fresh water, with a bit more for salt, is not uncommon. Switching to a drysuit, BP/W, and steel tanks allows for the reduction of lead.

[peterbj7]

your undergarment, the buoyancy they add is related to the weight of the undergarment.
However, for diving in very cold water, very heavy undergarments are chosen, and they can be quite buoyant

Not strictly accurate - it's the bulk of the undergarment that determines how much air is trapped, not the weight. And of course it's the air that gives the insulation, not the fabric of the garment. But this is really semantics, as weight and bulk tend to go together. Though not always - a good "Thinsulate" undergarment gives more insulation than a heavier garment of inferior design.

There is talk, mainly advertising hype, of metal linings helping to conserve heat. Although I can see a theoretical basis for this I don't know if it's true, and many people I know say it isn't.