99 replies to this topic

[PerroneFord]

A buddy check will catch a mispositioned tank? I've watched people begin dives AFTER a buddy check with their tanks turned off, with no mask on their face, and without fins. And these were not novice divers. Thumb through a copy of SCUBA Diving magazine. The amount of snag hazards, mispositioned tanks, etc., is scary.

None of that really matters though. The fact is, few people care. Few people want to be good in the water, especially if it requires some work.

Vinny, I am looking forward to some easy cave dives with you in a couple of months. You'll have to bear with me, as I don't have any DIR divers around me to dive with, so I'll be rusty on that stuff. We should fall into a routine pretty easily though. A quick cavern tour at Ginnie, then maybe Peacock or Orange Grove, and Little River if the flow is still down.

[captsteve]

I have to say that much DIR is useful regardless of where you are diving or regardless of if its recreational. I really dont follow everything that is considered DIR, but I apply the things that directly affect my diving.
I have friends that have dove the Monitor, but have never taken a deco class. When we discuss those things, it comes down to comfort levels. Protocal and technique are important, but the ability to use them are more so.
So,.....for me, DIR is a resource of knowledge that I can apply as it fits my "bill". I will probably take classes whenever possible....

[VADiver]

...I have friends that have dove the Monitor, but have never taken a deco class. When we discuss those things, it comes down to comfort levels. Protocal and technique are important, but the ability to use them are more so.

So where did they get the knowledge of decompression? And what type of schedule do they use?

Perrone, I'm looking at some dates to make it down your way. I'll have to take a cave class too before I can join you. I'll chat you up with a PM tomorrow and see what looks good for you; plus you can fill me in on the cave course. I want to take Tech 1 in December (fingers crossed) but need to brush up on my 3' ascent drills.

Edited by VADiver, 01 September 2006 - 06:35 PM.

[captsteve]

...I have friends that have dove the Monitor, but have never taken a deco class. When we discuss those things, it comes down to comfort levels. Protocal and technique are important, but the ability to use them are more so.

So where did they get the knowledge of decompression? And what type of schedule do they use?

Perrone, I'm looking at some dates to make it down your way. I'll have to take a cave class too before I can join you. I'll chat you up with a PM tomorrow and see what looks good for you; plus you can fill me in on the cave course. I want to take Tech 1 in December (fingers crossed) but need to brush up on my 3' ascent drills.

They use the old navy tables along with a computer that is probably almost an antique. It is my understanding that this individual just fell in with the right group of people when he was learning...

[6Gill]

So where did they get the knowledge of decompression? And what type of schedule do they use?

Vol. 1&2 USN Diving Manual along with what the comercial divers where/are using.Deco diving and the use of various gases pre-dates SCUBA.(experiments and even patents date to the early 1900s).
As to what theses particular divers used I don't know but it would be intresting to compare to the various deco programs along this the dives I/we are currently doing in that range.
Maybe Capt. Steve can get that info?

[captsteve]

So where did they get the knowledge of decompression? And what type of schedule do they use?

Vol. 1&2 USN Diving Manual along with what the comercial divers where/are using.Deco diving and the use of various gases pre-dates SCUBA.(experiments and even patents date to the early 1900s).
As to what theses particular divers used I don't know but it would be intresting to compare to the various deco programs along this the dives I/we are currently doing in that range.
Maybe Capt. Steve can get that info?

I dont have any of those tables, but I know they are much more liberal than the computers we use......at least that is what i have been told..... I did a dive on a site several days ago, and then let an ex-navy seal use my gear. his career was in the time of minimal gear. he had never used a computer and didnt want to use mine until he found out the pressure guage was wireless. Anyway, after a short dive he said how much he loved how all the information was right there.
I guess, my point is that.."everyone" used to dive with much less and a set of tables and did fine, but the new stuff sure is great. Its the diver, not the gear.
I will look around the internet for a set of navy tables........

[6Gill]

I dont have any of those tables, but I know they are much more liberal than the computers we use......at least that is what i have been told..... I did a dive on a site several days ago, and then let an ex-navy seal use my gear. his career was in the time of minimal gear. he had never used a computer and didnt want to use mine until he found out the pressure guage was wireless. Anyway, after a short dive he said how much he loved how all the information was right there.
I guess, my point is that.."everyone" used to dive with much less and a set of tables and did fine, but the new stuff sure is great. Its the diver, not the gear.
I will look around the internet for a set of navy tables........

I've got the tables but was wondering more if you could get the depths,run times,gases used to compare to more updated deco theories.

[VADiver]

I'd like to see the schedule also.

[captsteve]

All I know from our conversation, was that the dives were to 230ft and using straight air. I dont know what they were using for deco.....I will find out what I can as I will we talking to steve later today.

[ScubaHawk]

I'm curious as why the poll response I have learned about it, and I am not interested is the only one where you tell people to "state your reasons"

I have learned about it and I've run into a couple of zelots, one who is still alive because my buddy pulled me away and calmed me down. Some of their ideas make good sense to me, some don't.

[PerroneFord]

Some of their ideas make good sense to me, some don't.

Hawk,

I am curious. Which ideas in DIR do you feel do not make good sense? I am not asking to be argumentative, I am just interested in your thoughts. Perhaps we can stimulate some good conversation from this...

[ScubaHawk]

Some of their ideas make good sense to me, some don't.

Hawk,

I am curious. Which ideas in DIR do you feel do not make good sense? I am not asking to be argumentative, I am just interested in your thoughts. Perhaps we can stimulate some good conversation from this...

No problem. Just off the top of my head: The concept that the same configuration is necessary for every type of dive. I love my BC and for doing open water dives where I'm leading a group I think it's perfect. I have an A2 system with an octopus. I like the set up, if a diver is OOA and panicky, he can rip the reg from my mouth and my A2 is inches way. The idea that I must use a backplate and no A2 or that the extra lift bag will be creating too much drag is absurd IMHO. I'm taking students out I will come back with 1/2 a tank 90% of the time.

[PerroneFord]

Ah gotcha.

I am not an A2 fan. When I've used it for ascents, I've found it limits my vision, especially when looking to my right. To cure this, the corrugated hose would have to be much longer than I prefer it to be. I don't find these limitations with the backup around the neck. I'm not trying to change your mind here, just giving my personal experience.

The idea of HAVING to use a backplate is a dicey one and causes consternation among many. I tend to prefer it for my diving, but then I never really got used to anything else. had the common wraparound in class, and then bought a Zeagle and used that for a couple dives before I sold it.

What extra liftbag are you talking about? And where are you stowing it??

[netmage]

I hope this post doesn't come off zealtory - its not my intent, but I wanted to expand on the DIR rationale behind some of these for any lurkers.

The concept that the same configuration is necessary for every type of dive.
...
I love my BC and for doing open water dives where I'm leading a group I think it's perfect. I have an A2 system with an octopus.

You know what you use; muscle memory - ingrained reflex action.

If kit "A" is only good for type "A" diving. And Kit "B" is good for type "A & B" diving - why have two kits...?

If the core elements of everyones kit is identical - when it hits the fan - not only will you know how and where to react accordingly - but your buddy will as well should the need arise.

[ScubaHawk]

I hope this post doesn't come off zealtory - its not my intent, but I wanted to expand on the DIR rationale behind some of these for any lurkers.

The concept that the same configuration is necessary for every type of dive.
...
I love my BC and for doing open water dives where I'm leading a group I think it's perfect. I have an A2 system with an octopus.

You know what you use; muscle memory - ingrained reflex action.

If kit "A" is only good for type "A" diving. And Kit "B" is good for type "A & B" diving - why have two kits...?

If the core elements of everyones kit is identical - when it hits the fan - not only will you know how and where to react accordingly - but your buddy will as well should the need arise.

Because if kit A works best for A type diving and kit B works so-so for type A diving but great for type B diving then I think the "right" way to do it would be to use the gear that's best suited for the dive.

Perrone: I carry a marker/lift bag rolled up and secured to my reel, in addition to my marker clipped to the line.