126 replies to this topic

[gcbryan]

My daughter had some issues with gear being too large when she was in commercial diving school.

They made a few extra "neoprene seals" that she wore under the suits seals.
The extra seals added a more bulk to her neck so that the hardhat seals would work for her without leaking.
She just doesn't have the 16" plus neck like her classmates.

I would check and see if your LDS has some old neoprene you could make a collar and bracklets out of.
Sew some velrco on the ends and see how they work.
This did the trick for my daughter.. You know how tiny she is

Sorry for not remembering this before.

Almost as tiny as her mother.

I called the LDS today to see if they had any suits with smaller seals and they did get a new medium in that may have smaller (less stretched out?) seals. I'll pay them a visit tomorrow to see if the size small suit will fit and if the seals are any smaller. If not, the woman I spoke with said they've got something they call a *dog collar* that people use in this instance.

Just for Perrone I'll remember to check what the undergarments are like. The LDS suggested I look into merino wool underwear rather than just a wicking material. Wool wicks, yes?

Oh! This is getting exciting!

If you get wet to the point where your under-undergarments are getting very wet with our cold water you have bigger problems than wicking can solve

[Cold_H2O]

I have an old drysuit with a bad zipper.
And YES I do get soaked when I dive it.

Working with the mfg to get a new suit that fits.
Bought one but it was a new line and the pattern had some issues.
They think they have worked out the bugs and are ready to make me another new drysuit.

Annasea ~ I can almost bet the "collar" at your LDS is what my daughter had. Good luck with the newer suit.
I hope the seals work better for you.

Edited by gis_gal, 20 July 2007 - 08:46 PM.

[ScubaDadMiami]

Even though I do not live in a colder region, I never dive in a wetsuit almost ever. So, my drysuit gets lots of use, and I am pretty particular about several drysuit issues. I am sure that some or many might not agree with my decisions/theories, but here they are anyway.

Thermals: Too many people count on the drysuit working properly when selecting thermals. Okay, folks, it's time to play "what if . . . ?"

What if your suit floods and then you have to spend an extended time in the water that turns out to be cooler than anticipated?

Suppose the dive boat leaves you behind, and you are left floating in the water for a few hours?

Suppose the current sweeps you away, and you are drifting for a long time until rescued/you can exit the water?

Suppose you are called upon to overstay your bottom time due to things like assisting a buddy, entanglement in fishing line, etc?

Is your underwear selection selection still appropriate for the above? If not, change to thermals that are prepared to handle the day.

I am a big fan of Thinsulate. It is stated to preserve warmth when fairly wet. Even for my warmest water diving, I make sure my thermal insulation includes a light weight Thinsulate just in case . . . . I have suits in 40, 100, 200 and 400 weight Thinsulate. So, I just change undies depending on the intended temperature range.

Liners: Silk Weight underwear from any hiking shop should fit the bill. Some are even treated to absorb oders. Even with my lightest weight underwear, I always use the silk weight liners. This will keep moisture from touching your skin so much, keeping you warmer and more comfortable.

Custom suits: You know your body type. You know whether you can get away with a standard size or not. If you can't, get a custom fitted suit. It sucks paying for it. However, you are going to be using this suit for a number of years. It will annoy you everytime you use your suit if it does not fit you properly. Don't say I didn't warn you.

Leaking Seals: Drysuits will occasionally allow some water entry due to body type (wrist tendons) or your positioning (such as straining your neck to look down, etc.) However, it is not normal for a lot of water to enter on every dive. If this is a consistent pattern, something is not right.

Also note that your body is always releasing some moisture through the pores, typically sweat vapor. Your suit will trap this inside, and this can give the newbie the impression that the suit is leaking when opening the suit to find moist underwear. Normal sweating will cause fairly uniform moisture patterns over the thermals. So, if you find a particular area that is quite wet compared to others, this is from a leak and not sweating.

User Replaceable Seals: I am a big fan of this. Your seals will tear at the worst time possible, such as when you arrive for that week long dive vacation or some other exotic experience of a lifetime. I carry a spare set of seals for both wrist and neck in my dive kit, and I can change my seals in about 10 minutes or less. DUI ZipSeals are the brand that I use on my suit. (I even have a set of neoprene ZipGloves for that day when I will return to cold water diving. I can switch from my latex seals to the ZipGloves in just a few minutes, and then I can change back to the regular seals easily.) There are other brands/ways to do most of this. So, you should look into the issue when doing your research. Do not go duct taping your suit unless an emergency field repair.

Latex Allergies: Many people have this problem. However, it could just be the reaction to the prior user's skin oil on the rental suit. It can also be blocked pores due to the tight fitting seals for long periods of time. Try soap and water as soon as possible after emerging from your suit. Alcohol (on the skin, not down your throat ) might also lessen the effect. See a dermatologist for the real answer.

[PerroneFord]

Great post SDM.

While I too am a fan of thinsulate, and own a 300g Thinsulate suit, it has its drawbacks. One major one as you know.

I put my new polarfleece underwear set in the pool today, and nearly burned up. The pool was upper 70s, and I only had on underarmour heat gear as a base layer. But had I been really swimming, I would have been far too hot. I wasn't even wearing my hood. I can't wait to try that setup in water around 68F-72F. Should be a bit more comfy.

Hopefully, Annasea (and others) take your words to heart. Being cold in the water is no joke. Hypothermia is nothing to fool with.

[annasea]

<snip>

Liners: Silk Weight underwear from any hiking shop should fit the bill. Some are even treated to absorb oders. Even with my lightest weight underwear, I always use the silk weight liners. This will keep moisture from touching your skin so much, keeping you warmer and more comfortable.

<snip>

Also note that your body is always releasing some moisture through the pores, typically sweat vapor. Your suit will trap this inside, and this can give the newbie the impression that the suit is leaking when opening the suit to find moist underwear. Normal sweating will cause fairly uniform moisture patterns over the thermals. So, if you find a particular area that is quite wet compared to others, this is from a leak and not sweating.

Thx for the post, Howard!

I hit the outdoor stores today (the best ones are all within walking distance of each other) and invested in merino wool liners -- 1 bottom, 2 tops (great colours and all half price! ) and 3 pairs of socks. I made enquiries into synthetic wicking gear, but everyone I spoke to today preferred the wool. Apparently, even though the synthetics are treated with odour guard, they'll still smell. Ick!

Later, I visited the LDS to check out the undergarments for Perrone. I wasn't shown the actual rental undies, but was told they're the same as the ones for sale -- Pinnacle Evolution. According to Pinnacle's website, these are the second thickest undies they make so I should be OK. If not, I'll bring my polar fleece sweatshirt along for added core warmth.

One thing the woman at the shop mentioned that no one really spoke of here is that regardless of how bundled up you are, you may still get cold eventually due to cold hands. I won't be using *smurf* gloves -- 5mm titanium wet gloves instead -- so we'll see what happens.

While I too am a fan of thinsulate, and own a 300g Thinsulate suit, it has its drawbacks. One major one as you know.

What's the drawback of thinsulate? I see that the undies I'll be using are made with this as well.

[PerroneFord]

I hope the Merino works out for you. I've never known it to be a wicking layer. I've always used it as an insulating later. Hopefully that works out for you.

The Pinnacle Evolution is the same undergarment I have. I don't know your local water temps, but it is usually used down to about 45-50F. For insurance, wear something underneath it. It's a great suit though and I love mine.

Cold hands are always a problem. You're dives will likely be pretty short so hopefully it won't be too bad. But if I was diving in those waters, I'd most certainly be looking into dry gloves. I have to learn to use them for my upcoming great lakes ventures. Not sure if I am going to get blue or orange gloves!

Oh, the disadvantage of thinsulate is that it doesn't take kindly to washing. It loses MUCH of it's themal property after washing. So much so, that most people don't wash them. Or when they do, they relegate the suit to water 10-15 degrees warmer after that. For my purposes, I view my thinsulate suits as 1-2 season suits. After that, they will get washed and moved to cave duty.

Best of luck in your drysuit diving. I hope you have a good enough time to consider diving locally. You have some of the worlds best diving at your doorstep. It's such a shame to not take advantage of it. Really.

-P

I hit the outdoor stores today (the best ones are all within walking distance of each other) and invested in merino wool liners -- 1 bottom, 2 tops (great colours and all half price! ) and 3 pairs of socks. I made enquiries into synthetic wicking gear, but everyone I spoke to today preferred the wool. Apparently, even though the synthetics are treated with odour guard, they'll still smell. Ick!

Later, I visited the LDS to check out the undergarments for Perrone. I wasn't shown the actual rental undies, but was told they're the same as the ones for sale -- Pinnacle Evolution. According to Pinnacle's website, these are the second thickest undies they make so I should be OK. If not, I'll bring my polar fleece sweatshirt along for added core warmth.

One thing the woman at the shop mentioned that no one really spoke of here is that regardless of how bundled up you are, you may still get cold eventually due to cold hands. I won't be using *smurf* gloves -- 5mm titanium wet gloves instead -- so we'll see what happens.

While I too am a fan of thinsulate, and own a 300g Thinsulate suit, it has its drawbacks. One major one as you know.

What's the drawback of thinsulate? I see that the undies I'll be using are made with this as well.

[annasea]

I hope the Merino works out for you. I've never known it to be a wicking layer. I've always used it as an insulating later. Hopefully that works out for you.

*ahem* Well if you read the link I emailed you...

Attached Files

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[gcbryan]

For what it's worth the best dryglove system I've found is factory installed and is (I believe) made by Viking. It's a factory install option for both DUI and Bare Drysuits and probably others. It requires no stretching of the latex wrist seal as most others do. It also uses cheap $15 latex gloves that you simply stretch on over a ring that is permanently mounted on the outside of your sleave.

The only way it's possible to leak is if you puncture the glove since there are no O-rings to not seal properly.

Edited by gcbryan, 21 July 2007 - 11:06 PM.

[PerroneFord]

For what it's worth the best dryglove system I've found is factory installed and is (I believe) made by Viking. It's a factory install option for both DUI and Bare Drysuits and probably others. It requires no stretching of the latex wrist seal as most others do. It also uses cheap $15 latex gloves that you simply stretch on over a ring that is permanently mounted on the outside of your sleave.

The only way it's possible to leak is if you puncture the glove since there are no O-rings to not seal properly.

This advice is GOLDEN. After trying a couple of styles last year, the Viking is the only one that made my shortlist. Simple and effective. And one of the few with a ring large enough to fit my very large hands.

[gcbryan]

It also allows the user to replace the wrist seals (a feature that I didn't know about or appreciate until I already owned it).

[annasea]

For what it's worth the best dryglove system I've found is factory installed and is (I believe) made by Viking. It's a factory install option for both DUI and Bare Drysuits and probably others. It requires no stretching of the latex wrist seal as most others do. It also uses cheap $15 latex gloves that you simply stretch on over a ring that is permanently mounted on the outside of your sleave.

The only way it's possible to leak is if you puncture the glove since there are no O-rings to not seal properly.

Thanks for the info, Gray! If I ever decide to buy a drysuit, I'll definitely investigate this further.

I have a question about the gloves though... is the $15 latex glove you write of just a liner glove? I'm guessing you'd be wearing something thicker/warmer on top of it? If so, would it be those awful smurf gloves or a neoprene glove?

[gcbryan]

For what it's worth the best dryglove system I've found is factory installed and is (I believe) made by Viking. It's a factory install option for both DUI and Bare Drysuits and probably others. It requires no stretching of the latex wrist seal as most others do. It also uses cheap $15 latex gloves that you simply stretch on over a ring that is permanently mounted on the outside of your sleave.

The only way it's possible to leak is if you puncture the glove since there are no O-rings to not seal properly.

Thanks for the info, Gray! If I ever decide to buy a drysuit, I'll definitely investigate this further.

I have a question about the gloves though... is the $15 latex glove you write of just a liner glove? I'm guessing you'd be wearing something thicker/warmer on top of it? If so, would it be those awful smurf gloves or a neoprene glove?

The $15 glove is not the liner. The gloves I'm talking about aren't lined (since they couldn't then stretch). They are the outer glove. They are made of latex and are black. You wear a separate inner fleece glove. If you put a hole in the latex glove all you replace is that $15 latex glove.

The warmth comes from the inner fleece glove and the air that is trapped in the glove and the fact that you aren't wet

The gloves you are referring to don't stretch and are used with a system of rings (that can fail) and that rely on stretching out the latex seals (which isn't a good thing).

Think of having a coat that had large donut sized rings sewn on/clued to the outside on your sleaves near the wrist. Now, take a latex glove like you might use to wash dishes and put this on and pull the ends over the ring on your wrist. The very act of stretching the glove over the ring would keep the water out with no failure points.

The gloves you are referring to have rings installed in both the glove and on the sleave and also have mating O-rings that must mate together just right to remain water tight. They can be hard to get off as well.

With my system you simply pull the latex glove off after the dive.

It is a little hard to visualize this I know.

[annasea]

Well I'm back from the *land of the drysuit*.

Long story short... I spent $200 (course fee) to save $2000+ (drysuit and accessories). Yay me!

[PerroneFord]

Well, how did you do?

[ScubaDadMiami]

I am guessing that this means you didn't like it enough to pursue buying one?