148 replies to this topic

[sapphire]

know what??
i've decided that i have no f*****g idea how love happens.

it doesn't seem to matter what you do or say, where you are, who you are, what you like, what you don't....

you can't force it, all the lists in the world won't make it appear, and careful planning will not end with favorable results.

it's not a game plan, it's not an organizational chart.

one day, when you're not looking, your heart opens up like vis suddenly improving on a murky dive, and POW! you're blindsided and awestruck by what appears before you.

something once familiar is transformed into something precious, and, with any luck, you are open enough to accept it.

that's what i think.

Man, I SO agree with you, TF!!

[NormsKid]

It seems that a lot of folks have "issues" with the word submission and don't want anything to do with being submissive or having a submissive wife. I just wanted to clarify what my understanding of "submit to your husband" means from a biblical perspective.....I certainly don't want everyone here to think I'm some sorta doormat....cause I'm not.

Ephesians 5:22 tells us, "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord."

To submit to your husband's leadership is to support his leadership. It means being an encouraging, believing wife who allows her husband to be the leader in the family. It doesn't mean being a doormat. You should share your opinions, your thoughts and feelings, and make decisions together. Obviously, it helps to choose the right time, the right place, and the right tone. Ultimately, though, you support your husband's decisions. And when your husband makes a bad decision, you trust the Lord to step in and help out.

I would be curious to know what other people interpret "submit to your husband" to mean....especially those men out there who said they don't want a submissive wife.

Michelle

[drbill]

Michelle- To submit in the Biblical sense still seems to accept male dominance (leadership) in the marriage or relationship. Ideally I would want my partner and I to make decisions together, with as much discussion as needed to ensure we form some consensus. I don't think a marriage or relationship "needs" a leader if the two work together as partners. Of course this may be somewhat ideal, but it is a goal to strive for IMHO.

Why would (or should) a woman submit to me? That does not suggest partnership.

My father is a typical German, controlling, etc. However when he had to make an important decision as to whether he would accept a long-distance transfer or look for another job, he chose to bring it to a family vote. Each member of the family had a vote and we voted to stay in our home and he had to look for another job. I thought that was very enlightened.

Doc

[NormsKid]

Based upon your ideal, which doesn't really seem much different than what my definition is. Submission includes open discussion and communication in an attempt to come to a consensus together as a single unit.

What would you, as a male, do if you and your spouse simply couldn't agree after having a serious discussion on whatever it is? How do you then decide what is going to be done?

If neither party should submit to the other, how is a final decision made?

Michelle

[triggerfish]

rock-paper-scissors.

[BradfordNC]

know what??
i've decided that i have no f*****g idea how love happens.

it doesn't seem to matter what you do or say, where you are, who you are, what you like, what you don't....

you can't force it, all the lists in the world won't make it appear, and careful planning will not end with favorable results.

it's not a game plan, it's not an organizational chart.

one day, when you're not looking, your heart opens up like vis suddenly improving on a murky dive, and POW! you're blindsided and awestruck by what appears before you.

something once familiar is transformed into something precious, and, with any luck, you are open enough to accept it.

that's what i think.

wow, i agree with Triggerfishy

[drbill]

Michelle- it seems that the only fair approach if a couple comes to an impasse is to take turns making the decisions. That way we both defer to the other, the man and the woman both "submit."

Doc

[drbill]

TF- To be "blindsided" may be the best way to find love. IMHO it isn't "at first sight," and may well jump up and bite you in the butt when you least expect. All of a sudden you realize that friend you've been sharing such great experiences with is indeed someone you have fallen in love with... slowly, over time, through shared experiences.

Doc

[triggerfish]

wow, i agree with Triggerfishy

brad, you feelin' ok, there, honey???

do you realize you just said you agreed with me?

[BradfordNC]

wow, i agree with Triggerfishy

     

brad, you feelin' ok, there, honey???

do you realize you just said you agreed with me?

shhhhhhh

don't tell anyone

[Sophia]

This talk of marriage and submission reminds me of an iron oven trivet my parents had when I was a kid. It said,

"I am the boss in this house,
and I have my wife's permission to say so."

I have never been married, but I have observed this is often true.

[WreckWench]

shhhhhhh

don't tell anyone

too late.......BUSTED!!!!

[WreckWench]

This talk of marriage and submission reminds me of an iron oven trivet my parents had when I was a kid. It said,

"I am the boss in this house,
and I have my wife's permission to say so."

I have never been married, but I have observed this is often true.

Or this classic a girlfriend said to me....

My husband is the head of our household...but I'm the neck!

[drbill]

The comments thrown around in this thread really seem to illustrate the ambiguity of the relationship between men and women. The talk about the man leading the relationship with the approval of the woman don't seem to imply an equal partnership any more than the man dominating the woman.

Perhaps I look for an ideal that doesn't exist? I am still single "after all these years." I want a strong woman. No, not one who can out bench me... but one of high intelligence who I will respect and be willing to be on equal footing with. Have not met many who fit that description, but fortunately I have been with a few over the years and those have been my best relationships.

One of the primary reasons I don't meet more women like this is my residence on Catalina Island. Our small resident population does not include many well educated professional women, especially of the single persuasion. The same dilemma holds true for the females here of course (who tend to be much younger than I am).

Enough of this top side fun and games. Time to get down and dive. My buddy Karen is on her way over and I've got a lot of footage to show her tonight. We're planning on putting her Grammy-nominated music to my underwater video for PBS.

Doc

[canuckdiver]

know what??
i've decided that i have no f*****g idea how love happens.

it doesn't seem to matter what you do or say, where you are, who you are, what you like, what you don't....

you can't force it, all the lists in the world won't make it appear, and careful planning will not end with favorable results.

it's not a game plan, it's not an organizational chart.

one day, when you're not looking, your heart opens up like vis suddenly improving on a murky dive, and POW! you're blindsided and awestruck by what appears before you.

something once familiar is transformed into something precious, and, with any luck, you are open enough to accept it.

that's what i think.

know what? *I'M* quickly deciding that it's not worth the PITA of even worrying about it anymore......