47 replies to this topic

[Diverbrian]

Some of us are potty trained better than others. Don't sweat it, Jennifer, it's a disgusting practice anyway. You might want to work on the ocean aspect, some boats don't have heads.

And the smell of some the heads of the heads on some of the boats that do have them is not a good thing to think about!

[DandyDon]

Let's see - what were we talkling about here...?

How about the big 3D for starters.  Drinking, Diving and Dehydration. Any takers?

To your knowledge...are they finally tying DCS to dehydration and sleep deprivation?

Having been warned that Regular Coffee was a diuretic, while DeCaf is not, I switched to the latter for diving, and I think I have indeed noticed that I pee less, even tho whizin' in my wet suit doesn't bother me; like Jer said: "That's what the safety stop is far, right?" Yep, one reason, anyway. I just have to remind myself to stop that practice when I change into street clothes...

Otherwise, I don't drink empty water. I cannot cite references at the moment, but working with my general memory, et al, I think I've read that urine is saltier than ocean water, and it's really important that we replace the sodium chloride lost, therefore just water - or worse, bottled water, which is usually "distrilled quality" water produced by Reverse Osmosis - will not really hydrate well. We need to add extra salt to our diet or drink.

And somewhere else - I heard that adding additional potassium choride is a good idea. Here's one refernce, underlined emphasis mine:

The mineral potassium is important to your body for a strong healthy nervous system, maintaining a regular heart beat and proper muscle contraction. Potassium nourishes the heart, kidneys, pancreas, muscles and the nerves. Potassium works with sodium to regulate the body's water balance. Potassium is very important to chemical reactions inside cells. It also controls the flow of nutrients through cell walls.  Potassium also helps in transmission of electrochemical impulses needed by the human nervous system. Potassium is also needed to maintain a stable blood pressure level.

To accomplish these two objectives, I've tried adding 3/8 teaspoon NaCl and 1/8 teaspoon KCl to 2 quarts of Koolaid made with 1/2 the sugar directed on the package, and that seemed to work well.

Morton Life Salt seems to be a mix of NaCl and KCl, and I working with the idea of adding 1/4 teaspoon to 1 quart of coffee, Koolaid, etc to bolster electrolyte needs. And - I'll be looking forward to The Doc comments on all this...

Otherwise, Partying & Diving is for dummies - people I don't want to dive with!

[Bubble2Bubble]

Thanks Don
I was enjoying reading this post earlier and thought I would come back and ask about salt as a way of retaining water but you clearly covered that for me.

Again Thanks


Mike

[Diverbrian]

I am curious, though. As most of us in the US already consume FAR more salt than we need (ask a cardiologist), I guess that I don't see the need for any extra electrolytes. I always assumed that divers don't work hard enough to warrant that. The electrolyte drinks were always for the actual athletes that run marathons and that type of thing, the way that I was taught.

Doctor! Help settle this!

[Bubble2Bubble]

Thats A Good point to Brian
Until the Doc shows up what do you think of this statement ?

Don

The mineral potassium is important to your body for a strong healthy nervous system, maintaining a regular heart beat and proper muscle contraction. Potassium nourishes the heart, kidneys, pancreas, muscles and the nerves. Potassium works with sodium to regulate the body's water balance. Potassium is very important to chemical reactions inside cells. It also controls the flow of nutrients through cell walls.  Potassium also helps in transmission of electrochemical impulses needed by the human nervous system. Potassium is also needed to maintain a stable blood pressure level.

I think he is right on track with that.

Mike

[No Pressure]

I just have to remind myself to stop that practice when I change into street clothes...

Thanks Don for clarifying that practice.
Well, Happy Easter to all. I have spent the day at one of my bro's house watching his kids run around looking for colored plastic eggs, then eating and drinking way too much (since I was not going to be diving),
What great posts! You guys (and girls) are awesome. Good thoughts all around, and I am not sure I can add "the definitive answer", but here goes.

Dehydration: yes the answer is fluid flow (circulation/ perfusion, etc). Think of a cold mountain stream. If the stream does not have much water in it, and is flowing slowly from obstructions, it will freeze (sludge). If the stream has lots of water in it, even if the air temp is freezing, the stream still flows. Same concept with keeping our blood vessel tank "full" when we dive. Optimal blood flow and tissue perfusion means optimal ongass and offgassing of nitrogen. Dehydration by any means, including the diuretic effect (pee factor) of alcohol and caffeine, limits blood volume, and therefore flow. Other factors that affect blood vessels and tissue perfusion (blood, oxygen and nutrients to the cells in the tissue) include chemicals that cause blood vessels to narrow, or blood to be shunted away from various body parts. Adrenaline being a major one. Cold, anxiety, exertion, stress, lack of sleep, etc can all raise adrenaline level, and affect our blood vessel tone and tissue perfusion. We all have roughly 5-6 liters of blood volume in us, and about 150 liters of potential space in the pipes (blood vessels). The body regulates where that flow will go. A Dr Strauss has named "disordered decompression sickness" as events which cause blood flow "disorder", leading to DCS. Other conditions like diabetes, high blood pressure, Raunauds, prior surgery or injury and lots of others factors also affect blood flow.
As for electrolytes; Athletes, marathoners, etc sweat out salts, and they need to replace what they lose. We mainly need fluid (volume) status to be optimal in the blood vessels. That can be by any non-alcohol or non-caffeine containing solution (to avoid peeing out the fluid). Dan, your "mix of life" sounds good, but I don't have the organizational skills or patience to prepare it. Gatorade is good, but so is water for the short term. Don't get wrapped up on the exact composition of the fluid you are taking, just take lots of it. We normally say drink fluids till your urine is near-clear in color, but if you are wringing out the wetsuit to check...... how is one to know?
I will quit, cause those that know me know that I can talk for hours. It's genetic. Great discussion, and lets keep it up.
I will start another thread soon on what drugs (legal) we can take to lessen our risk of DCS.
mark

Edited by Walter, 11 April 2004 - 09:04 PM.

[Coo's Toe]

Wow... an actual serious thread for once. See what happens when I take a day off to go Easter egg hunting? ( Though you should probably know the Easter eggs I was finding today were squid eggs... max depth 87 feet. )

Hydration. Can't say enough about it. I usually take water and gatorade when diving. I heard somewhere that too much gatorade is a bad thing, so I'll do a 32 ounce bottle and a lot more water to keep the fluid level up. Bananas are your friend, just be sure NOT TO EAT THEM ON THE BOAT!!!! ( To prevent confusion amongst the blondes reading this... bananas have nothing to do with proper hydration. They are a fruit, grown in third world countries... very tasty. I only mention them because it relates to potassium. LOL )

About lack of sleep... While this is hardly scientific, I have noticed that the only time I ever get noticably narced at depth ( and it's never a happy narc, it's always a dark paranoid narcosis ) is when I have not gotten good rest the night before. I can survive on six hours a night, but on just about every occaision that I go diving on 4 hours sleep or less, I will get very narced below 80 feet, guaranteed. Given this obvious external symptom, it does lead to obvious questions about what's happening in my body on a microscopic level that I'm not aware of. So I'd have to say proper rest is a must.

[Walter]

I've noticed only a small % of boat crews are superstitious about bananas. Most don't object.

[Diverbrian]

I've noticed only a small % of boat crews are superstitious about bananas. Most don't object.

You mean that they are serious about some boat crews having a problem with bananas. I didn't know that! I've never seen a problem with them.

[No Pressure]

Love the banana line. Hey WW, as our local blonde expert.....I know you are asking "if it is a virgin banana daqueri, can you take it on the boat?"
Agree about sleep. LOTS of physiology going on that we just don't understand, but then, Mother Nature keeps some things to herself for us to "discover" in the years to come.
I fully agree about sufficient hydration and sleep to get us in the optimal condition to enjoy diving for many years. We all probably don't take in enough trace elements, minerals, and such, esp when on vacation. Citrus, bananas (again, WW, without the rum in it), and some sort of vitamin supplementation are all on the good list. As well as a full dose aspirin a day while diving (more to follow)

[WreckWench]

I've noticed only a small % of boat crews are superstitious about bananas.  Most don't object.

You mean that they are serious about some boat crews having a problem with bananas. I didn't know that! I've never seen a problem with them.

YES.....MANY boat operators are VERY superstitious about bananas...and being the resident blonde who NEEDS her bananas....YES I DO.....NEED THEM THAT IS......no don't be silly.....its for the potassium.....yes that's right...I need them for the potassium....

But on with my story....so YES many boat operators are very superstitious about bananas and the reason is that in the olden days they contained spiders and if a banana spider bit a sailor at sea...he could die due to limited medical treatments available at the time.

However fortunately for us banana loving folks....my NC boat operator has finally allow bananas on the boat....however eating them will be graded!!! LOL!!! True story....

[WreckWench]

I am curious, though. As most of us in the US already consume FAR more salt than we need (ask a cardiologist), I guess that I don't see the need for any extra electrolytes. I always assumed that divers don't work hard enough to warrant that. The electrolyte drinks were always for the actual athletes that run marathons and that type of thing, the way that I was taught.

Doctor! Help settle this!

Hey Brian...you are right...we consume far too much sodium and only the most strenuous of exercise requires the replenishment of salts...a level of exertion that most of us never achieve. Even Zendiver a competitive body builder replenishes with predominately H20.....pure, clean, and preferably non-RO water so that the needed minerals are still in it.

[WreckWench]

Wow... an actual serious thread for once.

Hey Coo's Toe....how come you haven't started one before this????

[chinacat46]

I drink low sodium V8 juice. It's got a healthy dosage of potassium and lycopene and because it's low sodium less salt. Not to mention that I like it. But I like Kilkenny better.

[Diverbrian]

However fortunately for us banana loving folks....my NC boat operator has finally allow bananas on the boat....however eating them will be graded!!! LOL!!! True story....

Graded on what? Oh never mind, if we go on with that topic, it will wind up in "issues related to being single forum" and we will create more work for Walter to keep us all in line!