85 replies to this topic

[WillDiveForBeer]

Sassy, no problems here, I can't get enough of it..so you won't have to worry about infidelity here (BTW, want to see my receeding hairline???), LOL.

[mvillanueva]

The points here about pre-nup and financial brackets reminded me of this woman I dated in Southern California. As we got to know each other more, it became clear to me that she had a lot of money. And I became more uncomfortable about the financial differences. You all know at some point in a relationship you cross over a hitherto unnoticed line and realize that things *might* be becoming serious in the future. I don't remember where we were, but I think out of the blue I said something along the lines like: If things ever get serious between us, I want you to know that I will insist on a pre-nup agreement. That comment surprised her and she asked where it came from.. and I explained my thinking that in my mind the money difference was concerning me in that I did not want her family (or her) to think I was after money. and that I wanted to address that point early on "just in case".

I distinctly remember feeling both really odd inside about saying that and feeling that it was important to raise it soon and straight-up.

[Cold_H2O]

No, I wouldn't have a problem including that. However, having been married to someone who used sex and intimacy as a bargaining chip I'd say that I would have to include the other language as a counterbalance.

I thought thats what "a relationship" ment.. Being with someone to love and care about.. Sex and affection (giving a @!&% about the other person and their well being, wants and desires)..
I have a special name for the evil $#@% that use it as a bargaining chip..That is really low.
P.S. Glad you got out

[jextract]

I'm glad I got out, too. However it cost me $70K in "spousal support," a.k.a legalized extortion, for the privilege of not being married to her. Thus, I learned the need for requirement #2.

[Cold_H2O]

I'm glad I got out, too. However it cost me $70K in "spousal support," a.k.a legalized extortion, for the privilege of not being married to her. Thus, I learned the need for requirement #2.

OUCH.... :dltears:
Spousal support now there is an entire topic on its own...
Never got it.... Never saw its purpose... Maybe in 1950 it was a good idea.. but in 2005 not so sure...
I thought spousal support died along with the dinasours. At least thats what my attorney told me

[WreckWench]

No, I wouldn't have a problem including that. However, having been married to someone who used sex and intimacy as a bargaining chip I'd say that I would have to include the other language as a counterbalance.

First off not all women will use sex and intimacy as a bargaining chip. One bad apple does not the whole cart make. However demanding 'anytime and anyplace' is a bit unreasonable...or at least it can be.

My thinking about infidelity is as follows: If I'm not all the woman you want or can handle then should you decide to dip your stick elsewhere I have the option to leave and I will take the kids without any repercussions from you. Therefore I would include an infidelity clause in my pre-nups. And yes...I've been cheated on before...destroyed both of my previous engagements. (One was the cause of the breakup...heck we were young and I'm glad he got another girl pregnant and the other was used to get me to break off the relationship since he did not have the anatomy to do it himself. Seems he felt that if I broke off the relationship I'd give the ring back but if he broke it off, I might not.)

[Cold_H2O]

My thinking about infidelity is as follows: If I'm not all the woman you want or can handle then should you decide to dip your stick elsewhere I have the option to leave and I will take the kids without any repercussions from you.

WW, Bravo
I would have stated it exactly the same way... If you need or want someone different than don't stop here....I don't need to be remade..so if I am too short, fat, flat chested...(well you get the idea) move on... Someone will think I am just right...Also, don't expect me to remake you... or hold your ego together...If I don't want to be with you I will let you know and I expect the same courtesy...

[jextract]

No, I wouldn't have a problem including that. However, having been married to someone who used sex and intimacy as a bargaining chip I'd say that I would have to include the other language as a counterbalance.

First off not all women will use sex and intimacy as a bargaining chip. One bad apple does not the whole cart make. However demanding 'anytime and anyplace' is a bit unreasonable...or at least it can be.

Remember, in life often times you don't get what you deserve ... you get what you negotiate. I had no real expectation that she would concede that point whatsoever, yet was pleasantly surprised when she did. I was merely making a point myself that there are two sides to that coin. Don't want me to stray? Then take away any need for it. I had no desire to ever get into a permanent relationship with that person; I was merely making a point with her that she hadn't thought of before.

[WillDiveForBeer]

My thinking about infidelity is as follows: If I'm not all the woman you want or can handle then should you decide to dip your stick elsewhere...

WOW...with all this talking about dipping sticks elsewhere, I think I need to take a dip into a cold lake somewhere....LOL

What exactly is an infidelity clause? If I am angry and don't feel like having sex that day, am I breaking the clause? 99% of the time, I am ready to go, but what about that 1%? Am I not able to just say no?

In this HYPOTHETICAL (wink-wink) scenario, it seems as though the women hold the sex cards. I'd drive 100 miles one-way from work to go to her home. Most of the time, we'd have sex when we want, but there were times when she wouldn't. She'd be tired, sick, or some other reason, maybe she was just mad at me. That is understandable. Or, when we were having sex, I'd want more and she'd be done and not want anymore, still understandable. Even if I was tired, I'd always muster up the energy to make love.

What is not understnadable, the only time I never gave her sex when she wanted it was I was mad at her and used her same excuse as "I'm tried, lets just sleep" and she was pissed at me and used it against me that I didn't want to have sex with her anymore, blah blah blah.

So, if one does structure a clause, which I think is rediculous, do you account for every possible scenario?

BTW, are pre-nups really worth the effort when lawyers have said that judges are reversing pre-nups or calling them invalid these days? Maybe the US just needs to progress, realize we aren't the Cleavers anymore and be more modern as some other countries are....What is his is his, what is hers is hers and what is shared is shared. His money into retirement, his own 401(K). His car loan, his car. Their mortgage, their house.

[jextract]

Well, you know the general rule: women need a reason, men just need a place.

Yes, absolutely there is a need for a pre-nup these days, especially in places like Califormia. When I split with my ex, the way the law is here is that she gets roughly half the difference in our incomes for half the time we were married. When we met she was working two jobs, but after we got married she quit them both - something I did not agree to - effectively dropping her income to zero. So every asset we had was paid for by my earnings ... she gets half of it. I went back to school at night and took out a loan to get my MBA. Even though she didn't support me financially or emotionally in earning that, she got half the benefit of the salary increase EVEN THOUGH the loan is not considered community property, it is mine alone. And to make matters worse, my monthly student loan payment is not deducted from my income in the calculation of alimony. So you tell me, in the future should I get a pre-nup?

[BradfordNC]

So is it really shallow to worry about physical appearances???

from an evolutionary biology standpoint, it's keyin in on a persons underlying genetics

[Sophia]

Another, who initially said she would never sign one, asked about a clause on infidelity. I said I'd include that if she included language that she would put out any time and anywhere I wanted.

Actually, if she was after your your money she should have signed it. Any pre-nup that includes required sex is automatically thrown out. It's construed as prostitution. She could have signed any document you wanted, while cooing how much she loved you. Then shafted you when she felt like it.

I would also have a problem with that clause. Don't get me wrong. I love sex. But the assumption is that if one party isn't getting enough sex in the relationship, then it's OK to have an affair.

[Sophia]

Seems he felt that if I broke off the relationship I'd give the ring back but if he broke it off, I might not.)

Did you? Enquiring minds want to know.

[jextract]

Another, who initially said she would never sign one, asked about a clause on infidelity.  I said I'd include that if she included language that she would put out any time and anywhere I wanted.

Actually, if she was after your your money she should have signed it. Any pre-nup that includes required sex is automatically thrown out. It's construed as prostitution. She could have signed any document you wanted, while cooing how much she loved you. Then shafted you when she felt like it.

I would also have a problem with that clause. Don't get me wrong. I love sex. But the assumption is that if one party isn't getting enough sex in the relationship, then it's OK to have an affair.

My point in that discussion was not to in any way try to negotiate that into an agreement. I never in a million years would have tried to negotiate that on a serious basis, for the precise reason that if you have to negotiate that you are with the wrong person. I was simply trying to make a point to that person that there are two sides to anything.

And I would agree with you ... it's not grounds for having an affair but it is grounds fot terminating the relationship.

[Divegirl412]

Well, you know the general rule:  women need a reason, men just need a place.

Yes, absolutely there is a need for a pre-nup these days, especially in places like Califormia.  When I split with my ex, the way the law is here is that she gets roughly half the difference in our incomes for half the time we were married.

That is why I got divorced in Florida BEFORE moving back to California!!!!!