172 replies to this topic

[finley]

I just got tired of women who expected so much and yet contributed little to a "relationship" (or "partnership" as I prefer).

'Way down here in Jawja, we call them golddiggers...



Cheers!

Jim

but guys your missing the poin....t we are trying to tell you that we feel like nice girls finish last...guys see a cute butt or big cha cha's and they're hooked...them want to know why it didnt work out....well...the women they're falling for are gold diggers and have practiced that smile well.... we're not all that way

[gcbryan]

I think it was Groucho Marx who said, "I wouldn't want to join any club that would have me as a member."

I think something similar happens to women sometimes. They aren't interested in anyone who would be interested in them.

It's much easier to build a wall around themselves and feel that they are waiting for the one true love (who either doesn't exist or is the person looking at them in the mirror).

In the name of looking for the "right" one they can be so controlling that if the "right" one did come along he wouldn't be interested in them. Really you would think that this whole relationship thing would be easy. Hang out with people you like and avoid the rest and dispense with all the rules. No one is in control and therefore no one should be controlling since it doesn't work anyway.

I think this all gets down to no one wants to get hurt, but unless you are open to that you aren't going to ever have a great relationship.

Of course I could be all wrong.

As an aside, I was at a social function recently and a woman was talking about where all of her "hidden" tatooes and piercings were, how she liked to have them "played with", and in general didn't seem to hold a lot back in this discussion at the party.

My buddy talked to her for a while later on at the party and during some small talk asked her what she liked to do on her days off. She said he was getting too personal and got up and walked away. Go figure.

Women, you got to love them but don't try to figure them out.

[normblitch]

Doug,

Thanks! You put it VERY succinctly...and for Finley, "Better alone, than with One chosen thru lowered criteria"

Norm

HMMM...a really nice guy can't figure out why he hasn't found the woman he is looking for? maybe he should examine his criteria???

You mean "perfection"? No, the thing is that I think really nice guys just don't get noticed. While I am watching all the "bad boys" performing their routines for women, the pickup lines, the money flashing, the loud talk, etc., I am in the background, not wanting to join what I see as so much bulls***. Because there is so much noise up front, I don't get noticed.

I don't know, maybe I just don't see the signals very well. Haha...that very well could be it.

Doug

[normblitch]

Perrone,

As much as I would like to be as Positive regarding this Thread as I am with your Diving Future, I can only tell you that it DOESN'T get any better with age.



Norm

Wow, talk about a sore subject for me...


I think most single, non-a**hole men over 30 realize we'll never be attractive enough, wealthy enough, confident enough, or secure enough to meet and marry someone like minded.

So we can either change our behavior, change our appearance, work like dogs to aquire money, fake our confidence, etc. to try to meet the woman of our dreams, or we can resign ourselves to being who we are, and being alone while women talk about trying to meet men like us, yet consistently choosing men nothing like us.

It's the biggest ruse in the world.

[Photographic Mercenary]

When I hear "new age man" I cringe.
I would prefer renaissance but too many can't spell it.
Men are what women want.
Wants and needs are two different things both are acquired tastes.
So many times I see women distracted by Bad Boys.
When what they desire is a good man.
They are in short supply.
It requires training
As for nice guys finishing last.
We are predatory pack animals always on patrol.
Someone has to bring up the rear or cover if we are in retreat.
Age and treachery will always over power youth and enthusiasm.
Let the young pups clear the way and run down the herd.
The seasoned dog knows how to pace himself.
Now just becoming a single man has caused me to become little wary, no need to be easy prey.


pm

[PerroneFord]

Norm,

I hear ya buddy. It's ok. I'm not expecting it to get any better. Maybe fate will smile on me, and I'll meet someone nice and it'll all work out like in those novels the women read. Barring that, I'm enjoying what I am doing with my life and that's good enough for me.

Finley, Im sorry you feel we are missing the point. Trust us, we aren't. We've been hearing your point since we were 12 or 14 years old. We get it. Nice girls don't finish last, they refuse get in the game. A cute butt, or nice boobs is always pleasing. Just like a six-pack or a muscular chest is on a man. But those things don't make a woman a good mother, and they don't make her attractive after the first hour.

I think in truth most men are looking for something very simiple. A woman who has some goals, has some plans to reach her goals, can operate somewhat independently, takes care of herself, and is pleasant to be around. Guys aren't really super picky. I'm sure you've heard that before. But as long as we continue to play this little charade of women chasing men who are married, women not being interested in guys until they move on with their lives, women brushing nice men off only to talk later about how the crappy guy she keeps seeing is treating her badly, etc. then there will continue to be conversations like this.

So let me toss this out:

I am a single man, age 36. I lead a simple life, based on principles of Zen as much as possible. I work for the government so I don't make a lot of money. I live in Florida and there is a lot of diving, and waterbased activity near me. My credit is decent, and I am not grossly in debt. I have a reasonable education. I'm about 30 pounds overweight (6'0, 240#), but working on it. I am seeking a partner for life. I am interested (generally) in women actively involved in sports such as soccer, tennis, kayaking, etc. I would love to meet someone with an interest in motorsports.

I am not a user, I don't abuse those I date. I don't curse and fight. I do not use drugs nor am I willing to date anyone who does. I enjoy a drink every now and then. I have been known to enjoy a cigar a couple times a year. I am open minded. In other words, I'm a pretty nice guy. Those here who've met me will likely attest that I am a gentleman.

So, lets see who's really after "a nice guy", and who's just blowin smoke.

[drbill]

but guys your missing the point.... we are trying to tell you that we feel like nice girls finish last...guys see a cute butt or big cha cha's and they're hooked...then want to know why it didnt work out....well...the women they're falling for are gold diggers and have practiced that smile well.... we're not all that way

A cute butt definitely. Big cha cha's... I prefer them more petite. However I will not deal with a woman I can't talk intelligently with after our many hours of love making is "over" (or at least in rest mode).

[Twinklez]

I may live in Texas, but I am a California girl. I could probably count the number of traditional dates I've had on my fingers. What does that say about men in California? I mean...I've only been in Texas five years. Not saying I wouldn't mind being wined and dined, it would be nice; but I do understand why the women in California whine about it.

Tina, you are right... it is more the "culture" here than a specific gender. I find southern California very superficial, although of course there are enough people living here that many interesting ones will surface if you look for them.

I found it to be exactly that when I lived there and you're right...it's gotten worse.

As I was once told... "They all look the same in the dark" (Fortunately, the same applies to me, otherwise I'd get no dates at all.)
Man, this is going downhill rapidly.

Peronne - You are a very handsome man. There is absolutely no need to get out a bag or turn off the lights!

Wow, this has gotten a bit embarassing and personal...I didn't think I would get this kind of response, as my original post was sort of a rant about why "nice guys" can't get the attention that the "bad boys" get.

I didn't really mean this thread to center around me, though; I wanted to foster a discussion that's pretty topical to singles. Especially divers, I think, as the vast majority of the male divers I've met are "nice guys"...very cool and really a different breed. Don't know why I differentiated, though, because actually, that goes for the female divers I've met also.

The singles threads benefit everyone - often even those that are married. You started a thread that sparked a lot of interest, not just because of you and your feelings; but because others are having similar experiences. Sharing your personal feelings and experiences help more people here than you realize; some are just too reluctant to speak up.

As I was once told... "They all look the same in the dark" (Fortunately, the same applies to me, otherwise I'd get no dates at all.)

Man, this is going downhill rapidly.

Assuming your comment was based solely on appearances, please allow me to stroke your ego for a brief moment... ()

My dear Perrone... . Having never spent any time with you, I can't comment on your personality, but physically... ! You are an extremely handsome man!

ditto! ditto! ditto! ditto! ditto! ditto!

I think it was Groucho Marx who said, "I wouldn't want to join any club that would have me as a member."

I think something similar happens to women sometimes. They aren't interested in anyone who would be interested in them.

It's much easier to build a wall around themselves and feel that they are waiting for the one true love (who either doesn't exist or is the person looking at them in the mirror).

In the name of looking for the "right" one they can be so controlling that if the "right" one did come along he wouldn't be interested in them. Really you would think that this whole relationship thing would be easy. Hang out with people you like and avoid the rest and dispense with all the rules. No one is in control and therefore no one should be controlling since it doesn't work anyway.

I think this all gets down to no one wants to get hurt, but unless you are open to that you aren't going to ever have a great relationship.

Of course I could be all wrong.

Ok guys listen up! Here's how it works for me:

I meet someone I'm interested. I determine if he sparks my interest, meets my needs. Then I determine whether or not I think I will be "good enough" for him! Bad thing to do I know...but that little voice in my head...well. I mean "dang...look at that six pack and those arms; wow intelligent too! No way he'd be interested in a 45-yr old woman who can no longer have children, is a few lbs overweight and has morning breath when she wakes up." We beat ourselves up just as much as you guys do. Oh, but wait...I'm not done. "Damn he's talking to her. I'd pick her over me anyday. They're smiling and laughing, he's giving her a shoulder massage! Forget it...move one girl, he's not gonna be interested in you." So, say you manage to get past those humps, and he does look your way, even laughs and smiles with you and then maybe even says he's like to talk more sometime. You exchange numbers or emails. You don't want to look eager so you wait...he should be the one to make contact first right? And you wait. Maybe he's thinking the same thing. Maybe days down the road one of you breaks and does call or email, maybe. The other doesn't want to seem to eager...or maybe is even upset that it took soooo long he or she now feels that you aren't truly interested or maybe even that you have too much on your plate already. Another hump, but you get past it. He's charming, he's witty, he's a gentleman, he's available, he's employed, and he's interested in you! Wow...there's only one thing to do! Run like hell because you know darn well you're going to get your heart broke!!! Then there's the battle inside...give him a chance, no way not worth the heart ache, just one date, huh been there done that, .... If you manage to get past that one date then the waiting game of who's going to call who first starts all over again.

I don't know how many will admit it, but I bet my scenario sounds all too familiar to many out there. We need confidence in ourselves, we need faith, we need to trust in others, and we need to never give up hope; because we are worth it!

As an aside, I was at a social function recently and a woman was talking about where all of her "hidden" tatooes and piercings were, how she liked to have them "played with", and in general didn't seem to hold a lot back in this discussion at the party.

My buddy talked to her for a while later on at the party and during some small talk asked her what she liked to do on her days off. She said he was getting too personal and got up and walked away. Go figure.

I'd say, "She just wasn't all that into him." It was an easy way out at the time. Myself, I love it when a man asks personal questions...not bedroom questions, but questions about me and my life. It tells me he's truly interested in me.

When I hear "new age man" I cringe.
I would prefer renaissance but too many can't spell it.
Men are what women want.
Wants and needs are two different things both are acquired tastes.
So many times I see women distracted by Bad Boys.
When what they desire is a good man.
They are in short supply.
It requires training
As for nice guys finishing last.
We are predatory pack animals always on patrol.
Someone has to bring up the rear or cover if we are in retreat.
Age and treachery will always over power youth and enthusiasm.
Let the young pups clear the way and run down the herd.
The seasoned dog knows how to pace himself.
Now just becoming a single man has caused me to become little wary, no need to be easy prey.

pm

How about a good man who occasionally likes to be a little bad with me and not to me?

Norm,

I hear ya buddy. It's ok. I'm not expecting it to get any better. Maybe fate will smile on me, and I'll meet someone nice and it'll all work out like in those novels the women read. Barring that, I'm enjoying what I am doing with my life and that's good enough for me.

Finley, Im sorry you feel we are missing the point. Trust us, we aren't. We've been hearing your point since we were 12 or 14 years old. We get it. Nice girls don't finish last, they refuse get in the game. A cute butt, or nice boobs is always pleasing. Just like a six-pack or a muscular chest is on a man. But those things don't make a woman a good mother, and they don't make her attractive after the first hour.

I think in truth most men are looking for something very simple. A woman who has some goals, has some plans to reach her goals, can operate somewhat independently, takes care of herself, and is pleasant to be around. Guys aren't really super picky. I'm sure you've heard that before. But as long as we continue to play this little charade of women chasing men who are married, women not being interested in guys until they move on with their lives, women brushing nice men off only to talk later about how the crappy guy she keeps seeing is treating her badly, etc. then there will continue to be conversations like this.

So let me toss this out:

I am a single man, age 36. I lead a simple life, based on principles of Zen as much as possible. I work for the government so I don't make a lot of money. I live in Florida and there is a lot of diving, and waterbased activity near me. My credit is decent, and I am not grossly in debt. I have a reasonable education. I'm about 30 pounds overweight (6'0, 240#), but working on it. I am seeking a partner for life. I am interested (generally) in women actively involved in sports such as soccer, tennis, kayaking, etc. I would love to meet someone with an interest in motorsports.

I am not a user, I don't abuse those I date. I don't curse and fight. I do not use drugs nor am I willing to date anyone who does. I enjoy a drink every now and then. I have been known to enjoy a cigar a couple times a year. I am open minded. In other words, I'm a pretty nice guy. Those here who've met me will likely attest that I am a gentleman.

So, lets see who's really after "a nice guy", and who's just blowin smoke.

Much !!!

[PerroneFord]

Twinklez comments are PRECISELY why I saw nice women don't get in the game. For goodness sakes!! You don't have to hinge how many kids you might have, or what your wedding dress will look like, to call a guy up for a first date! Is it any wonder guys get sheepish on these dates? He's thinking about whether she likes red or white wine, and she's trying to figure out who's catering the reception!

Nice ladies out there, a first date is a date to a man. It's not a precursor to marriage, it's not indicative of years of bliss to follow. It's an introduction to get to know someone a bit better. In fact, probably the first MONTH of dating is like this. At some point you learn enough about each other to say, yea, he or she is worth pursuing, or no, he or she and I don't get along well enough to pursue this further. Once it reaches that point, LET IT GO! Friends? Sure. Casual movie now and again? Maybe. Diving buddy? Possibly. He or she will change, I can make them come around.... NO NO NO!

[Twinklez]

Urggggg..... Not quite what I was trying to say...

Edited by Twinklez, 05 February 2006 - 09:20 PM.

[finley]

Twinklez comments are PRECISELY why I saw nice women don't get in the game. For goodness sakes!! You don't have to hinge how many kids you might have, or what your wedding dress will look like, to call a guy up for a first date! Is it any wonder guys get sheepish on these dates? He's thinking about whether she likes red or white wine, and she's trying to figure out who's catering the reception!

Nice ladies out there, a first date is a date to a man. It's not a precursor to marriage, it's not indicative of years of bliss to follow. It's an introduction to get to know someone a bit better. In fact, probably the first MONTH of dating is like this. At some point you learn enough about each other to say, yea, he or she is worth pursuing, or no, he or she and I don't get along well enough to pursue this further. Once it reaches that point, LET IT GO! Friends? Sure. Casual movie now and again? Maybe. Diving buddy? Possibly. He or she will change, I can make them come around.... NO NO NO!

PLEASE>>>>>don't judge all women by Twinklez...as I know you don;t want to be juged by " all other men"... I for one don't think that she has near the grasp on the "whole" that she beleives she has.....and yes I know I am stepping forward and maybe on...but we all have a voice and don';t need others to speak for us as individuals or as a group... so...if you want to know who I AM...talk to me.... if you wish to learn more about ....whoever talk to them.....don;t assume one voice speaks for another...

[PerroneFord]

I am not assuming Twinklez speaks for anyone else. And apparently I didn't capture the essence of what she was trying to say judging by her reaction. However her words reminded me of things I've heard an seen over the years.

Each of us has our own unique experiences and it tempers how we approach our lives. I apologize for dragging anyone into this conversation at a level they did not wish to participate.

I'll head back under the bridge now...

[Twinklez]

PLEASE>>>>>don't judge all women by Twinklez...as I know you don;t want to be juged by " all other men"... I for one don't think that she has near the grasp on the "whole" that she beleives she has.....and yes I know I am stepping forward and maybe on...but we all have a voice and don';t need others to speak for us as individuals or as a group... so...if you want to know who I AM...talk to me.... if you wish to learn more about ....whoever talk to them.....don;t assume one voice speaks for another...

Finley, never once did I speak for anyone else! If you'll read the post you'll see that I clearly said "Here's how it works for me:"!!!! Not us, not women, and definately not you!

I don't recall anybody asking for your opinion of my grasp and I'm sure you don't want me sharing my opinion of yours! I'd appreciate in the future if you would keep your comments about specific individuals, especially me, to yourself.

Edited by Twinklez, 05 February 2006 - 09:52 PM.

[captsteve]

wow.....tough thread....... almost sounds like a DIR argument......

i'll have to think about this......and read the whole thread

[PerroneFord]

wow.....tough thread....... almost sounds like a DIR argument......

i'll have to think about this......and read the whole thread

LOL!!

DIR "Guide to Dating"

Rule 1: Don't date strokes.