83 replies to this topic

[Solitary]

The biggest thing I thought was missing from my dive class was how to tell if your gear fits. I spent a lot of years with ill-fitting masks and wetsuits, constantly uncomfortable, before I realized that diving doesn't have to be a miserable experience. I almost gave up on diving because I couldn't stand the squished noses and velcro burns.

[VADiver]

Sadly your right...most new divers buy equipment similar to what their instructors are diving with; and the instructors push what they stock. Needless to say a bunch of gear ends up on e-bay or in the basement--I still have a Zeagle BC and UWATEC Smart Com. It was great gear when I was doing recreational diving, but as I progressed I needed new gear.

If there is one thing I learned about gear--buy it with the end goal in sight. If you want to stay recreational then you can get away with a vest type BC; but if you want to move into doubles and more advanced dives you need to get a back plate and wing set-up (I use the BP/wing recreationally too). If you decide on what dive route you want to take, then gear selection is easier.

[drbill]

Of course basic OW training is intended to carry on only so far these days. I got my BOW from Los Angeles County, one of the finest cert agencies around, after diving for nearly 8 years prior to that. The class was in the late 60's so of course it didn't cover a lot of things we now know and a lot of the equipment we now take for granted. However, it was very thorough, covering much of what current BOW, AOW and Rescue classes cover.

As for many of the things people have mentioned in this thread, personally I see them as important but not necessarily in the BOW class. It points to the need for continuing education as well as membership in groups like dive clubs and boards like SD to acquire the additional information.

[Racer184]

• Never dive without a knife.
• There are some dangerous and stupid ways to carry a tank.
• If you think you hear a leak in your system, do not put your ear next to anything that might have high pressure in it.

Edited by Racer184, 12 May 2008 - 06:29 AM.

[drbill]

Oh, one thing that was missing from my training classes was lovely ladies. After all, it was the sixties and there just weren't many diving back then. Sigh.

[robcgould]

The one thing I noticed is that time is a big factor. One of the things brought up a couple of years ago was task overloading. The more time the students have to process everything that is being taught the better.

Good job on this one guys!

As an Instructor I love to hear the stuuf that could have been instead of the 'how great thou arts' (Sorry for the hymnal here guys)

I personnally understand the issue with overloading and we have to be careful about our certifying agencies standards. We tread a fine line between too much and not enough. I always allow my students plenty of Q and A time and ensure that I touch on the 'whys' (do most divers use these snerkle thingies? Why do I have to hold my 'elephant nose' instead of pulling the dump? [I wanna see them dumping and it makes it more obvious for me] How much should I tip?) and if these questions are not answered I inform them of the things that 'fill out' the pure educational parts of the course.

I am a fairly lousy teacher. I have the test scores to prove it (always forgot that summary thingie during my IDC). My passion for the sport, love of the water and environment and desire to turn my student divers into buddies that I want to dive with tend to make me a very good instructor!

I dislike calling folks 'newbies', by the way. I instruct student divers! I am the LEAST pc person out there. I am a Land Surveyor for heavens sake! But the term just gets me! I learn something from every person I have worked with so that makes me just as much a newbie as the next guy.

I tell my divers not to think of me as their instructor but as a dive buddy with a little more experiance. I have found that it bridges the gap a bit, releaves some stress and allows some folks to even use my phone number if they have questions. I contact each student before the course start date to make sure all is going welll and to ensure that they know what is expected.

My last tid-bit (for now, I am sure) is this:
Rule #1 - Never hold your breath!
Rule #2 - Have FUN!!! (If you ain't having fun, you areprobably somewhere that you have no business being!
Rule #3 - All colors MUST match (provided to demonstrate rule #2)

THEN I make sure that they have fun especially in my class, pool and open water!

Now that I have written this book, Let's go dive!
RCG

[Underwaterpiclady]

My step son is working on his OW now. I am surprised that they aren't learning the tables anymore. Everything is dependent on the E-RDP. I don't like that idea at all. When I took my Nitrox course, I was the only one in the class that knew the tables and what they were for. What happens to your dive planning if the batteries in the e-RDP fail?

I also wish I had learned how to fit my gear, learned more about bouyancy control and navigation.

[robcgould]

My step son is working on his OW now. I am surprised that they aren't learning the tables anymore. Everything is dependent on the E-RDP. I don't like that idea at all. When I took my Nitrox course, I was the only one in the class that knew the tables and what they were for. What happens to your dive planning if the batteries in the e-RDP fail?

I also wish I had learned how to fit my gear, learned more about bouyancy control and navigation.

I hear ya! My shop recently made the decision to teach from the ERDP as well. IT SUCKS! But that is ok, I am gona to abide by the managers decision... I am ALSO gonna talk to the owner (I am with a 7 store chain) and see what he thinks about the whole thing.

Come on though. Lets talk reality here. How many folks out there actually do not use a computer (and rely on IT'S batteries) OR calculate their dive tables as they should. I do not recall seeing more than a very few folks over the last 16 years using their tables even with no computer.

The value of the tables appears to have turned into a tool for understanding the theory of gas absorption and release, not for actually planning a dive! Sad to say but what I have noticed in the Caribean is an attitude that what the DM plans MUST be ok!

I teach the specific lesson that each diver is responcible for his / her own safety and tell them that if they are uncomfortable with a plan, they need to tell the DM that they need an alternative idea of how to dive a particular site!

You should get an overview of tons of specialties during your OW. Buoyancy, Nav Equipment, Digital Photography, Drift, Deep, Rescue, Advanced among others are all touched on in my course. Sorry to say, but I can not teach everything I want someone to experiance during the OW. Time, cost, and task overloading just prevent SO MUCH. I encorage a brief overview and then tell my folks to explore the sport, find their areas of interest and further their education in those areas.

Tell me this all you readers of these posts...... Have you taken any specialties filling in the missing areas that you have mentioned? Some of the things mentioned SHOULD have been covered at least briefly and you might have already learned through the school of hard knocks (sorry that you had to go through that) but if something interests you I encourage you to bite the bullet and get the good stuff from someone who can fill out your education and allow you to be a safer, more experianced diver and have more fun!

[Landlocked Dive Nut]

I got certified in May 2006, and I was surprised at my check-out weekend with a Nav test - which was not discussed in any detail in OW class. We had glossed over the difference between Natural navigation vs. using a compass, but we were not taught how to read a compass at all. Rather, we were told that it was a separate class.

Needless to say, when my instructor told me to "go 90 degrees" I saw the 90 on my compass and headed out, only to realize quickly that I was headed deeper into the middle of the lake, when as the last test it should have taken me to shore! Slowly surfacing, I found my instructor shouting from the shore at me, worried as hell and wanting me on land ASAP.

Who knew??? I took Nav class, but still find Natural navigation to be much easier for me than doing math in my head at depth.

[pmarie]

Tell me this all you readers of these posts...... Have you taken any specialties filling in the missing areas that you have mentioned? Some of the things mentioned SHOULD have been covered at least briefly and you might have already learned through the school of hard knocks (sorry that you had to go through that) but if something interests you I encourage you to bite the bullet and get the good stuff from someone who can fill out your education and allow you to be a safer, more experianced diver and have more fun!

Since learning to dive I have pretty much always gone "cold" and my experience was "intsbuddy" in the majority. Rarely have I been diving with the same person. I decided that I needed to be a more "independent" diver. Meaning furthering my education and not rely on the "instabuddy." I have had multiple instructors for different classes. I took navigation with an Instructor in th Keys-she was Marvelous. I wanted to make sure that I could always find my way back to the boat, and I am not to proud to pop up and look to make sure that the boat is where I think it should be!!! Naturally expanding on that is Rescue, and I am still persuing DM.

[Brinybay]

I'm a dive education moderator on a local PNW message board

A local PNW board? Where?

Please share the things that, looking back, you wished your instructor had either covered in class (please specify which level you are referencing) or information she/he would have made available to you or whatever else you think would be beneficial for us instructors to hear.

Underwater communication. More specifically, the agencies should add some basic ASL designed for diving to the courses, and not just as a specialty, although more advanced ASL could be. The underwater charades that they currently teach mostly don't work. Of the 25 signals that are in the OW manual, I only count 8 that are used and understood regularly. Some just don't work in the real world of diving, e.g. an OOA diver does NOT calmly swim up to you and signal OOA and wait patiently for you to share air. Instead, they will grab your regulator right out of your mouth, signal be damned. I've seen it happen even in pools. Most of the communication needs underwater are too complex for these signals.

A story about the going up/surface (thumbs up) and the "ok?" signal. I was diving with a brand new diver fresh out of OW, and as we descended, I would give him on "ok?" signal. He in turn gave me the "thumbs up" signal. So I stopped the descent and ascended a bit. I again gave him the "ok?" signal, and he again gave me the "thumbs up/surface" signal. This continued until we reached the surface and I asked him what's wrong. His response? Nothing was wrong, he was giving me a Fonzie-style "heyyyy" thumbs up. Point is even the crude signals of OW aren't emphasized much.

Another suggestion that I've found works in the real world of diving that I don't recall being taught is ALWAYS carry a light, not just on night dives, and using your light to signal your buddy.

Teaching basic ASL is probably not something individual instructors can do on their own, so here's one thing you could do that I wish would have been taught - A warning about "agency wars" and to avoid them like the plague. It took me by surprise when as a new diver I called a shop in San Diego (I think it was an SSI shop) about going on a charter and the jerk screamed at me when he found out I was trained by a PADI shop (that was the first thing he asked - "what agency were you trained by?"). I was stunned and confused and didn't know how to respond, except that I was NOT going to comply with his demand that they have me go through what amounted to another check-out dive before going on their precious charter w/o even knowing my experience level, only that I was trained by PADI. If I had known what I know now, I would have told him a hearty F*** You and hung up. People who treat their respective agencies like a religion don't deserve any more than that. Ignorance, stupidity, and narrow-minded arrogance have no place in diving. When I dive with someone I haven't dived with before, I ask them about their experience and training level. I don't care one wit what agency it was with.

Edited by Brinybay, 09 July 2008 - 11:55 PM.

[robcgould]

If I had known what I know now, I would have told him a hearty F*** You and hung up. People who treat their respective agencies like a religion don't deserve any more than that. Ignorance, stupidity, and narrow-minded arrogance have no place in diving. When I dive with someone I haven't dived with before, I ask them about their experience and training level. I don't care one wit what agency it was with.

WOW! Tell us how you REALLY feel! tehe PREACH IT!

I am so encouraged that this thread is getting this much attention. Speaking as an instructor, it is helping SO much! I read these comments and it reinforces that I can not be perfect, I can only do my best and keep improving. I am sorry that there are folks out there that read this and can not say "yup, I do that already" to most of these comments. At least they are reading this and are interested in still learning!!! I am picking up tid bits with almost every post and see REAL VALUE in this thread!! BRING IT ON!!! Critique us please!!! I really want to prepare my divers for the real world, not just show them how to breathe and pass them onto the next situation!

PLEASE tell your freinds to post here and tell us how to do it better for the next person!

[Brinybay]

WOW! Tell us how you REALLY feel! tehe PREACH IT!

hehe, Wow indeed. Note to self: You know full well how cranky you are when you're tired, no more forum browsing or posting late at night, go to bed!

[georoc01]

My step son is working on his OW now. I am surprised that they aren't learning the tables anymore. Everything is dependent on the E-RDP. I don't like that idea at all. When I took my Nitrox course, I was the only one in the class that knew the tables and what they were for. What happens to your dive planning if the batteries in the e-RDP fail?

I also wish I had learned how to fit my gear, learned more about bouyancy control and navigation.

I hear ya! My shop recently made the decision to teach from the ERDP as well. IT SUCKS! But that is ok, I am gona to abide by the managers decision... I am ALSO gonna talk to the owner (I am with a 7 store chain) and see what he thinks about the whole thing.

Come on though. Lets talk reality here. How many folks out there actually do not use a computer (and rely on IT'S batteries) OR calculate their dive tables as they should. I do not recall seeing more than a very few folks over the last 16 years using their tables even with no computer.

The value of the tables appears to have turned into a tool for understanding the theory of gas absorption and release, not for actually planning a dive! Sad to say but what I have noticed in the Caribean is an attitude that what the DM plans MUST be ok!

I teach the specific lesson that each diver is responcible for his / her own safety and tell them that if they are uncomfortable with a plan, they need to tell the DM that they need an alternative idea of how to dive a particular site!

You should get an overview of tons of specialties during your OW. Buoyancy, Nav Equipment, Digital Photography, Drift, Deep, Rescue, Advanced among others are all touched on in my course. Sorry to say, but I can not teach everything I want someone to experiance during the OW. Time, cost, and task overloading just prevent SO MUCH. I encorage a brief overview and then tell my folks to explore the sport, find their areas of interest and further their education in those areas.

Tell me this all you readers of these posts...... Have you taken any specialties filling in the missing areas that you have mentioned? Some of the things mentioned SHOULD have been covered at least briefly and you might have already learned through the school of hard knocks (sorry that you had to go through that) but if something interests you I encourage you to bite the bullet and get the good stuff from someone who can fill out your education and allow you to be a safer, more experianced diver and have more fun!

I used an ERDP calculator as part of the OW cert and wished I hadn't.

The problem is that once you move away from the standard tables, and you need to work in factors that the ERDP calculator can't handle. I live at altitude and most of my local dives are at greater that 5,000 feet. The ERDP doesn't handle that, but I could make those adjustments. The other place is when you move to Nitrox, and have never looked at a table prior to them. I found myself learning tables at the same time I was learning Nitrox and it made what should have been a quick review much more challenging.

I'll admit I rely on my computer more than I should, but then again, I alway also dive with a watch, SPG & backup computer too. If you are depending on the computer to do the calculations for you, you better have some form of redundancy and a backup plan if the computer dies mid dive.

[Dive_Girl]

I have a healthy respect for the tables, so as matter of course I have elected to not teach the eRDP in OW courses. Air tables and their concepts are integral in other courses such as Enriched Air, Altitude, and classes beyond recreational diving. While the tables are certainly not "fun" they are a necessary foundation in diving, regardless if a diver immediately moves to diving a computer.