173 replies to this topic

[bpro]

How short is short? Our boat rides to the reef were all between 5 and 10 minutes if I recall correctly. I'd definitely like to do some more shore diving, though.

[DiverBabs]

Hi all,

Back from "Belize Baby!!" and had a wonderful time!

I had some really great dives & wonderful divers (and new friends) to hang out with. I really enjoyed everyone's company. Sorry I missed so many of you to say good-bye before I left.

Sure, we had a few glitches with a couple of things, but nothing that wasn't resolved right away…... It's all good.

As for the focus group... I guess my take is a little different than some others. Since I had already committed to - worst case scenario a full day and best case scenario a half day, I really didn't have any problem with what transpired. Sure it did turn into a bit of a sales pitch rather than a focus group, but not hard core selling. In fact, if we wanted to "sign on the dotted line and drop down money" they weren't ready for that. I can't exactly call that hard core selling. They had us out of there right after the boat tour as promised. We were then offered to stay for more info which many of us did. There was certainly no pressure to do so though.

As for the trip cost issues that were brought up.... I guess I think of it from the stand point of "do your homework" before you go. We were all told the prices up front before we committed. I admit I could have checked it out then to see how much of a bargain we were really getting for our contribution to the focus group but I chose not to do so. Mainly because I was just interested in the trip and traveling with this group. I certainly could have arranged a trip on my own (maybe paying less… maybe not), but it just wouldn’t have been the same.

Getting Nitrox proved to be a challenge which is not unusual at all in the islands so I wasn’t surprised. I was however pleasantly surprised to find we were given enough SI to still manage nice long dives. Most of my dives were at least 50 minutes. I was running out of air before time anyway. So, I really would have been paying extra for Nitrox that I really didn’t need.

As for the dives themselves…. Very nice! I was amazed to see the diversity in the diving from the South v.s. the North end. Both were totally enjoyable. Our dive guides were excellent and let us do our own thing. They were happy to lead the way and point out things for us or just let you cruise around on your own on the outer fringes of the group. That made it quite nice since we had 18 divers in the water.

I enjoyed being right in town and being able to walk around to get the flavor of the city. Locals were VERY friendly and IMO not really pushy when selling their wares.

Myself and another SDer took the last day off from diving to go explore some Mayan Ruins and go Cave Tubing. What an awesome day!! Special to my travel companion Outdoorswon.

Well, I’ve been long winded enough. I’ll post pics when I can.

Thanks to WW and all the other behind the scenes folks that feverishly threw this trip together for us. It was great and I can’t wait until the New Years Eve trip!!

All the best,
Babs

[mantarraya]

How short is short? Our boat rides to the reef were all between 5 and 10 minutes if I recall correctly. I'd definitely like to do some more shore diving, though.

If you guys were going to the sites really close to Ambergris Caye, like the the reef immediately east of Ambergris Caye or the sites to the south in Hol Chan Marine Reserve, those sites are just not that great. The really good sites are a good haul away, such as Blue Hole/Lighthouse Reef/Half Moon Caye and Turneffe Atoll. These are pretty much full day trips from San Pedro. The best diving in Belize, IMO, is Glovers Atoll, and it is really too far from Ambergris. Best to try to get there from further South...Placencia, Hopkins, or one of the more southerly cayes like Southwater or Tobacco.

[Neptuner]

Hi all,

Back from "Belize Baby!!" and had a wonderful time!

I had some really great dives & wonderful divers (and new friends) to hang out with. I really enjoyed everyone's company. Sorry I missed so many of you to say good-bye before I left.

Sure, we had a few glitches with a couple of things, but nothing that wasn't resolved right away…... It's all good.

As for the focus group... I guess my take is a little different than some others. Since I had already committed to - worst case scenario a full day and best case scenario a half day, I really didn't have any problem with what transpired. Sure it did turn into a bit of a sales pitch rather than a focus group, but not hard core selling. In fact, if we wanted to "sign on the dotted line and drop down money" they weren't ready for that. I can't exactly call that hard core selling. They had us out of there right after the boat tour as promised. We were then offered to stay for more info which many of us did. There was certainly no pressure to do so though.

As for the trip cost issues that were brought up.... I guess I think of it from the stand point of "do your homework" before you go. We were all told the prices up front before we committed. I admit I could have checked it out then to see how much of a bargain we were really getting for our contribution to the focus group but I chose not to do so. Mainly because I was just interested in the trip and traveling with this group. I certainly could have arranged a trip on my own (maybe paying less… maybe not), but it just wouldn’t have been the same.

Getting Nitrox proved to be a challenge which is not unusual at all in the islands so I wasn’t surprised. I was however pleasantly surprised to find we were given enough SI to still manage nice long dives. Most of my dives were at least 50 minutes. I was running out of air before time anyway. So, I really would have been paying extra for Nitrox that I really didn’t need.

As for the dives themselves…. Very nice! I was amazed to see the diversity in the diving from the South v.s. the North end. Both were totally enjoyable. Our dive guides were excellent and let us do our own thing. They were happy to lead the way and point out things for us or just let you cruise around on your own on the outer fringes of the group. That made it quite nice since we had 18 divers in the water.

I enjoyed being right in town and being able to walk around to get the flavor of the city. Locals were VERY friendly and IMO not really pushy when selling their wares.

Myself and another SDer took the last day off from diving to go explore some Mayan Ruins and go Cave Tubing. What an awesome day!! Special to my travel companion Outdoorswon.

Well, I’ve been long winded enough. I’ll post pics when I can.

Thanks to WW and all the other behind the scenes folks that feverishly threw this trip together for us. It was great and I can’t wait until the New Years Eve trip!!

All the best,
Babs

Belize baby! You got that right girl!

First and foremost I would like to thank EVERYONE that was on this trip or involved in any way to make it happen. Making any travel adventure a success in today's ever-changing world is a challenge and once again SD has met that challenge. I had the opportunity to experience world travel, get in some great diving and meet some extraordinarily wonderful new friends... and best of all, the only effort it took on my part was to sign and check and stick it in the mail. Being a long time veteran of numerous SD trips, I can honestly say that is one of the highest points that appeals to me personally... no effort on my part! LOL! That and the simple fact that I get to hang around with such great people is what makes this whole thing work for me.

Special thanks to all of my fellow divers on this trip who constantly encouraged my daughter Tiffany during her first ocean diving adventure... I know that she had a wonderful time on this trip and those words coming from a 20 year old girl who has the attention span of a gnat, means a great deal! LOL!

In any case, I've been reading through all of the various posts and thought that perhaps I would share my perspective as well. Not that I possess any great wisdom or anything, but as a confirmed "glass is always full" kind of guy, I genuinely do like to see everyone happy... and sometimes looking at things from a different perspective can shed a little light on the subject. Of course, it may be that I just like to talk a lot as well... LOL!

Was this trip without issues... no, absolutely not... but if you go through a single day in your life without issues, let me know, because I want to marry you! Seriously... life is about change and adaptation, every moment we are alive. The simple fact that everyone traveled safely to and from Belize, had all of their luggage and safely made all of their dives, regardless of what gas they were breathing, means that the trip was a huge success in my mind. I think it's pretty safe to assume that everyone brought back some new knowledge and some new friendships from this trip, and in the end, what else is there is life? We learn and we love... and in between we dive... life is good.

Just for the sake of comparison I thought I would throw out a few facts concerning the "resort forum" we attended, since that seems to be a subject of some mixed feelings. Some people seem to feel that the amount they "paid" us for our time was insufficient for the time spent. As a person who travels extensively, spends money faster than I can make it and has attended numerous "property related opportunities", I can honestly say that simply isn't true. As a perfect example, when we broke for lunch the day of the meeting, Joe, Tiffany and I were looking for a place to eat when we were approached by one of the Captain Morgan time-share crowd on the street. They offered (and I still have the actual invitation in writing) what amounted to $125 cash value for attending their "sales pitch" on a true time-share. I've also been to several in Mexico where they gave away various tours in exchange for your time and never has the value of any tour exceeded $300 and the time commitment was huge. Now perhaps if you are discussing a time-share investment here in the States they will give you a free weekend in Florida, but when you compare the prices of the two properties involved, we are definitely talking apples and oranges here.

I guess I'm just having a hard time understanding why anyone felt anything other than simply a fulfillment of our obligation with respect to Sapphire Resort. We were told very specifically ahead of time that they wanted our input concerning the final details of the "scuba" area of their project. We filled out the surveys as requested and we spent a few hours with them discussing it. That seems reasonable to me. As for the length of the meeting, in all honesty folks, it was us who drew the whole thing out, not them. I bet they didn't talk but an hour total the whole time. No offense, but when you ask a room full of twenty people what their opinion is about something, that's what you'll get... 20 opinions. Lots of what we discussed was already in the surveys and much of what was said was completely redundant between fellow SD-ers, but so what... people like to feel that their voice is being heard and that's fine. I'm not complaining, but I know that some people would have preferred it be more streamlined. In all honesty, I think Kamala did a great job of trying to keep things moving along and I believe that the Sapphire team was completely open and cordial about hearing everyone's honest opinion, even if it was redundant or it was something that had already been addressed. Not once did they interrupt a single person who wanted to speak... that alone impressed me a great deal.

As for the "sales pitch" they gave us, I almost laughed when I read that... what sales pitch? Unless I was sitting in a different meeting, the Sapphire group never even mentioned prices or any such thing until they were prompted to, several times I might add, by the members of our group. If this was a "hard sell", then I'm very confused, because the girl who tries to sell me cookies outside Sam's Club is more persistent than that. I've never been in a presentation of any kind that involved a purchase where the people who were offering the product were less interested in closing a sale than this one. All I can say is go down and sit in on a real time-share deal and your opinion may change. I can certainly appreciate that everyone feels differently about this, but it seems that even some of the comments are contradictory... we're saying that it was a sales pitch, but we're annoyed that they didn't have more paperwork to hand out to us like floor plans, etc. Huh!?!?!

Maybe I'm just blind, but I'll tell you what I saw. I saw four very successful resort developers who have already have a planned out resort community, which will no doubt follow in the success of their past projects. Somewhere along the way they thought, "Hey, if we're going to live here in the resort, wouldn't it be cool if we had a little village that catered specifically to divers... especially since we all want to take up the sport and enjoy our leisure time down in here in paradise?" Clearly they had already outlined the basics of the Scuba Village, but they were looking for input from real divers... people who might actually use this village in the future. They were very upfront about the fact that this section of the project is not even intended to make money... they are just looking to break even on it. These weren't sales-hungry closers looking to quick sell some time-share deal, they were honest, open-minded men who were genuinely interested in what amenities real divers would prefer in a village environment. How many CEO's do you know that come to sales meetings? These gentlemen were genuine and sincere and I for one felt that they richly deserved my attention for a few hours of time, particularly since I had committed to it ahead of time. They weren't even ready to take money from people and the "payment plans" they offered were obviously straight from the hip... somehow that doesn't ring true as a "sales pitch" to me. Even if I wasn't a diver, I would be interested in what they are proposing.

Let's just suppose for a moment that we look at a worst case scenario. You buy into the larger unit and you shell out your $6000 now, then you pay the maintenance fee every year ($300 to start) and it goes up the maximum amount of 6% every single year for the first ten years. Let's say that you have plenty of time to spend in Belize and you never rent any of your weeks back, so you use your week every year for the entire ten years. You have now paid a grand total, including the original investment, of $9, 954.23 over a period of ten years. That means that in a worse case scenario, the accommodations for 4 people (or 2 if you prefer the luxury of a suite) have cost you just under $1000 per week in Belize at a private resort. Keep in mind of course that you can still sell the remaining 89 years, prices for accommodations elsewhere have likely continued to rise in the future, plus you have presumably enjoyed some discounted diving during those ten years as well. If you start throwing in guaranteed rental rates for weeks not used, etc. this is a real no-brainer. Assuming of course that you would enjoy spending time in Belize and that is clearly a personal choice. Of course I realize that all of this information is subject to confirmation with due diligence, but my interest is certainly piqued.

As for the boat ride up to the north end of the island, all I can say is "thanks Sapphire!" I was dying to see more of Ambergris Caye and anyone else on the island would have probably charged me $50 just for the boat ride. As it turned out, we decided to dive farther up north as a result of that boat ride and we found some awesome diving spots! I'm so sorry that the 5-day group didn't get a chance to enjoy that part of the trip, but at least we can give some good recommendations for a return trip to Belize.

As for the diving in Belize not being that awesome, I am reminded of the limerick "The Blind Men and the Elephant" that I recall so well from my childhood. Each man feels a different part of the elephant's body and describes it in great detail, deducing that the elephant MUST be a certain way based upon their own experiences. The guy who feels the side of the animal is certain the elephant is like a wall... the one who feels the tail insists the elephant must be like a rope and so on. The greatest wisdom departed from that simple limerick, however, is in the final verse...

"And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!"

I think that the coastline, reefs and cayes of Belize are so vast and varied that any one of us could spend a lifetime just trying to see them all.... and I would suspect that each of them, even as the single flower blooms amongst the burning desert sands, holds its own mysterious beauty. Belize will beckon me again and I will answer the call anxiously.

Alright, enough poetry Pup... I know. I guess in the end, I was glad to see that SD is trying hard to seek out new destinations for us to venture to and even trying new ways to help subsidize the cost of getting there. We all have a tendency to only consider our trip to Belize, but SD must consider future trips as well, for the sake of all our members. If our trip served as a learning experience for those future trips, great... I can only be thankful for others who have gone before me to my future dive destinations. The travel industry, or any service industry for that matter, is so cutthroat these days, it's nice to see something with a little personal touch added... and in the case of SD it is a lot of personal touch. Personally, I've never stood at the end of a dock while my travel agent said, "Okay, due to circumstances beyond our control, everything we had planned on this trip is changing... here's my thoughts on how we can still make this a great adventure... what are your thoughts?" The simple fact that it is presented to me this way means that this organization is interested in keeping me happy. Kudos for that! "You know what" happens (please reference Zac's dog picture, lol)... but in the end, the difference between a smile and a frown is the cooperative effort of the people involved. You catch more flies with sugar than vinegar, right?

Long story short... (like I'm capable of that!?!?!)... I had an awesome trip and I know Tiffany did as well. I met some great new friends and I look forward to diving with all of you again just as soon as possible!

Thanks to all the people who contributed in so many ways!

Belize baby!

All dah' best!
Pup

[ScubaPunk]

In true Pup fashion! Well said. What took you so long??

[ScubaDrew]

Maybe I'm just blind, but I'll tell you what I saw. I saw four very successful resort developers who have already have a planned out resort community, which will no doubt follow in the success of their past projects. Somewhere along the way they thought, "Hey, if we're going to live here in the resort, wouldn't it be cool if we had a little village that catered specifically to divers... especially since we all want to take up the sport and enjoy our leisure time down in here in paradise?" Clearly they had already outlined the basics of the Scuba Village, but they were looking for input from real divers... people who might actually use this village in the future. They were very upfront about the fact that this section of the project is not even intended to make money... they are just looking to break even on it. These weren't sales-hungry closers looking to quick sell some time-share deal, they were honest, open-minded men who were genuinely interested in what amenities real divers would prefer in a village environment. How many CEO's do you know that come to sales meetings? These gentlemen were genuine and sincere and I for one felt that they richly deserved my attention for a few hours of time, particularly since I had committed to it ahead of time. They weren't even ready to take money from people and the "payment plans" they offered were obviously straight from the hip... somehow that doesn't ring true as a "sales pitch" to me. Even if I wasn't a diver, I would be interested in what they are proposing.

I certainly hope I am dead wrong, but let me tell you all a few things I learned, and what I saw from the Saphire group that set me off. I could very well be wrong.

A few years back, a really good friend of my parents, like a second father to me, lost someone close to him. A well known "psychic" was coming to the NY area, and this poor guy was gonna shell out over a grand to "talk" to the person he lost.

Why tell you all that? Because of that I went to a seminar on scam artists, one that focused a good deal on this particular slime ball. But that seminar opened with what they called a "Real Estate Round Table".

The format was similar, in this case golf. They were careful to point out it wasn't a timeshare, though might as well be. They used the "Ron Popiel" sales pitch, what would you expect to pay for "X", well, we'll sell it for "Y", but WAIT, just for you, if you act now you'll get it for "Z"!!! The 3 salesman interupted each other and threw numbers around just the four we saw did. They compared their resort to similar ones, just like the 4 we saw did. They offered a great price, but then an even better one, just like ours did.

They talked about how they weren't planning to make money on the starter group, they just wanted to get the ball rolling, and that would entice the people paying the full amount to come too.

They even mentioned a key tactic was not being ready to sign people up today. You see, that puts you at ease because you think of scammers as hit and run types. Since they couldn't sign you that day they must therefor be legit.

As for them not having floor plans? I am sure even in Belize you need some kind of a permit and have to meet some kind of building code. Surely at least their insurance company demands such. They either weren't prepared for the question, or they are really flying by the seat of their pants, starting to clear land and now they have to redo the entire drawing, reorder materials and all that because they are changing the layout, at the last minute. Does that not sound funny to anyone else? It sounds to me like they might just be being agreeable, but since there are no real plans to build, they can certainly agree to redo an entire village on a whim, 5 months before completing that phase of the project, that has only just barely gotten started.

Again, I could be wrong. I REALLY hope I am. But seeing all those key points brought up in a seminar I saw years ago, what kind of friend would I be if I didn't try to point them out?

[Ric]

Hi all,

Back from "Belize Baby!!" and had a wonderful time!

I had some really great dives & wonderful divers (and new friends) to hang out with. I really enjoyed everyone's company. Sorry I missed so many of you to say good-bye before I left.

Sure, we had a few glitches with a couple of things, but nothing that wasn't resolved right away…... It's all good.

As for the focus group... I guess my take is a little different than some others. Since I had already committed to - worst case scenario a full day and best case scenario a half day, I really didn't have any problem with what transpired. Sure it did turn into a bit of a sales pitch rather than a focus group, but not hard core selling. In fact, if we wanted to "sign on the dotted line and drop down money" they weren't ready for that. I can't exactly call that hard core selling. They had us out of there right after the boat tour as promised. We were then offered to stay for more info which many of us did. There was certainly no pressure to do so though.

As for the trip cost issues that were brought up.... I guess I think of it from the stand point of "do your homework" before you go. We were all told the prices up front before we committed. I admit I could have checked it out then to see how much of a bargain we were really getting for our contribution to the focus group but I chose not to do so. Mainly because I was just interested in the trip and traveling with this group. I certainly could have arranged a trip on my own (maybe paying less… maybe not), but it just wouldn’t have been the same.

Getting Nitrox proved to be a challenge which is not unusual at all in the islands so I wasn’t surprised. I was however pleasantly surprised to find we were given enough SI to still manage nice long dives. Most of my dives were at least 50 minutes. I was running out of air before time anyway. So, I really would have been paying extra for Nitrox that I really didn’t need.

As for the dives themselves…. Very nice! I was amazed to see the diversity in the diving from the South v.s. the North end. Both were totally enjoyable. Our dive guides were excellent and let us do our own thing. They were happy to lead the way and point out things for us or just let you cruise around on your own on the outer fringes of the group. That made it quite nice since we had 18 divers in the water.

I enjoyed being right in town and being able to walk around to get the flavor of the city. Locals were VERY friendly and IMO not really pushy when selling their wares.

Myself and another SDer took the last day off from diving to go explore some Mayan Ruins and go Cave Tubing. What an awesome day!! Special to my travel companion Outdoorswon.

Well, I’ve been long winded enough. I’ll post pics when I can.

Thanks to WW and all the other behind the scenes folks that feverishly threw this trip together for us. It was great and I can’t wait until the New Years Eve trip!!

All the best,
Babs

Belize baby! You got that right girl!

First and foremost I would like to thank EVERYONE that was on this trip or involved in any way to make it happen. Making any travel adventure a success in today's ever-changing world is a challenge and once again SD has met that challenge. I had the opportunity to experience world travel, get in some great diving and meet some extraordinarily wonderful new friends... and best of all, the only effort it took on my part was to sign and check and stick it in the mail. Being a long time veteran of numerous SD trips, I can honestly say that is one of the highest points that appeals to me personally... no effort on my part! LOL! That and the simple fact that I get to hang around with such great people is what makes this whole thing work for me.

Special thanks to all of my fellow divers on this trip who constantly encouraged my daughter Tiffany during her first ocean diving adventure... I know that she had a wonderful time on this trip and those words coming from a 20 year old girl who has the attention span of a gnat, means a great deal! LOL!

In any case, I've been reading through all of the various posts and thought that perhaps I would share my perspective as well. Not that I possess any great wisdom or anything, but as a confirmed "glass is always full" kind of guy, I genuinely do like to see everyone happy... and sometimes looking at things from a different perspective can shed a little light on the subject. Of course, it may be that I just like to talk a lot as well... LOL!

Was this trip without issues... no, absolutely not... but if you go through a single day in your life without issues, let me know, because I want to marry you! Seriously... life is about change and adaptation, every moment we are alive. The simple fact that everyone traveled safely to and from Belize, had all of their luggage and safely made all of their dives, regardless of what gas they were breathing, means that the trip was a huge success in my mind. I think it's pretty safe to assume that everyone brought back some new knowledge and some new friendships from this trip, and in the end, what else is there is life? We learn and we love... and in between we dive... life is good.

Just for the sake of comparison I thought I would throw out a few facts concerning the "resort forum" we attended, since that seems to be a subject of some mixed feelings. Some people seem to feel that the amount they "paid" us for our time was insufficient for the time spent. As a person who travels extensively, spends money faster than I can make it and has attended numerous "property related opportunities", I can honestly say that simply isn't true. As a perfect example, when we broke for lunch the day of the meeting, Joe, Tiffany and I were looking for a place to eat when we were approached by one of the Captain Morgan time-share crowd on the street. They offered (and I still have the actual invitation in writing) what amounted to $125 cash value for attending their "sales pitch" on a true time-share. I've also been to several in Mexico where they gave away various tours in exchange for your time and never has the value of any tour exceeded $300 and the time commitment was huge. Now perhaps if you are discussing a time-share investment here in the States they will give you a free weekend in Florida, but when you compare the prices of the two properties involved, we are definitely talking apples and oranges here.

I guess I'm just having a hard time understanding why anyone felt anything other than simply a fulfillment of our obligation with respect to Sapphire Resort. We were told very specifically ahead of time that they wanted our input concerning the final details of the "scuba" area of their project. We filled out the surveys as requested and we spent a few hours with them discussing it. That seems reasonable to me. As for the length of the meeting, in all honesty folks, it was us who drew the whole thing out, not them. I bet they didn't talk but an hour total the whole time. No offense, but when you ask a room full of twenty people what their opinion is about something, that's what you'll get... 20 opinions. Lots of what we discussed was already in the surveys and much of what was said was completely redundant between fellow SD-ers, but so what... people like to feel that their voice is being heard and that's fine. I'm not complaining, but I know that some people would have preferred it be more streamlined. In all honesty, I think Kamala did a great job of trying to keep things moving along and I believe that the Sapphire team was completely open and cordial about hearing everyone's honest opinion, even if it was redundant or it was something that had already been addressed. Not once did they interrupt a single person who wanted to speak... that alone impressed me a great deal.

As for the "sales pitch" they gave us, I almost laughed when I read that... what sales pitch? Unless I was sitting in a different meeting, the Sapphire group never even mentioned prices or any such thing until they were prompted to, several times I might add, by the members of our group. If this was a "hard sell", then I'm very confused, because the girl who tries to sell me cookies outside Sam's Club is more persistent than that. I've never been in a presentation of any kind that involved a purchase where the people who were offering the product were less interested in closing a sale than this one. All I can say is go down and sit in on a real time-share deal and your opinion may change. I can certainly appreciate that everyone feels differently about this, but it seems that even some of the comments are contradictory... we're saying that it was a sales pitch, but we're annoyed that they didn't have more paperwork to hand out to us like floor plans, etc. Huh!?!?!

Maybe I'm just blind, but I'll tell you what I saw. I saw four very successful resort developers who have already have a planned out resort community, which will no doubt follow in the success of their past projects. Somewhere along the way they thought, "Hey, if we're going to live here in the resort, wouldn't it be cool if we had a little village that catered specifically to divers... especially since we all want to take up the sport and enjoy our leisure time down in here in paradise?" Clearly they had already outlined the basics of the Scuba Village, but they were looking for input from real divers... people who might actually use this village in the future. They were very upfront about the fact that this section of the project is not even intended to make money... they are just looking to break even on it. These weren't sales-hungry closers looking to quick sell some time-share deal, they were honest, open-minded men who were genuinely interested in what amenities real divers would prefer in a village environment. How many CEO's do you know that come to sales meetings? These gentlemen were genuine and sincere and I for one felt that they richly deserved my attention for a few hours of time, particularly since I had committed to it ahead of time. They weren't even ready to take money from people and the "payment plans" they offered were obviously straight from the hip... somehow that doesn't ring true as a "sales pitch" to me. Even if I wasn't a diver, I would be interested in what they are proposing.

Let's just suppose for a moment that we look at a worst case scenario. You buy into the larger unit and you shell out your $6000 now, then you pay the maintenance fee every year ($300 to start) and it goes up the maximum amount of 6% every single year for the first ten years. Let's say that you have plenty of time to spend in Belize and you never rent any of your weeks back, so you use your week every year for the entire ten years. You have now paid a grand total, including the original investment, of $9, 954.23 over a period of ten years. That means that in a worse case scenario, the accommodations for 4 people (or 2 if you prefer the luxury of a suite) have cost you just under $1000 per week in Belize at a private resort. Keep in mind of course that you can still sell the remaining 89 years, prices for accommodations elsewhere have likely continued to rise in the future, plus you have presumably enjoyed some discounted diving during those ten years as well. If you start throwing in guaranteed rental rates for weeks not used, etc. this is a real no-brainer. Assuming of course that you would enjoy spending time in Belize and that is clearly a personal choice. Of course I realize that all of this information is subject to confirmation with due diligence, but my interest is certainly piqued.

As for the boat ride up to the north end of the island, all I can say is "thanks Sapphire!" I was dying to see more of Ambergris Caye and anyone else on the island would have probably charged me $50 just for the boat ride. As it turned out, we decided to dive farther up north as a result of that boat ride and we found some awesome diving spots! I'm so sorry that the 5-day group didn't get a chance to enjoy that part of the trip, but at least we can give some good recommendations for a return trip to Belize.

As for the diving in Belize not being that awesome, I am reminded of the limerick "The Blind Men and the Elephant" that I recall so well from my childhood. Each man feels a different part of the elephant's body and describes it in great detail, deducing that the elephant MUST be a certain way based upon their own experiences. The guy who feels the side of the animal is certain the elephant is like a wall... the one who feels the tail insists the elephant must be like a rope and so on. The greatest wisdom departed from that simple limerick, however, is in the final verse...

"And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!"

I think that the coastline, reefs and cayes of Belize are so vast and varied that any one of us could spend a lifetime just trying to see them all.... and I would suspect that each of them, even as the single flower blooms amongst the burning desert sands, holds its own mysterious beauty. Belize will beckon me again and I will answer the call anxiously.

Alright, enough poetry Pup... I know. I guess in the end, I was glad to see that SD is trying hard to seek out new destinations for us to venture to and even trying new ways to help subsidize the cost of getting there. We all have a tendency to only consider our trip to Belize, but SD must consider future trips as well, for the sake of all our members. If our trip served as a learning experience for those future trips, great... I can only be thankful for others who have gone before me to my future dive destinations. The travel industry, or any service industry for that matter, is so cutthroat these days, it's nice to see something with a little personal touch added... and in the case of SD it is a lot of personal touch. Personally, I've never stood at the end of a dock while my travel agent said, "Okay, due to circumstances beyond our control, everything we had planned on this trip is changing... here's my thoughts on how we can still make this a great adventure... what are your thoughts?" The simple fact that it is presented to me this way means that this organization is interested in keeping me happy. Kudos for that! "You know what" happens (please reference Zac's dog picture, lol)... but in the end, the difference between a smile and a frown is the cooperative effort of the people involved. You catch more flies with sugar than vinegar, right?

Long story short... (like I'm capable of that!?!?!)... I had an awesome trip and I know Tiffany did as well. I met some great new friends and I look forward to diving with all of you again just as soon as possible!

Thanks to all the people who contributed in so many ways!

Belize baby!

All dah' best!
Pup

What he said!!

[ScubaDrew]

"And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!"

I think that the coastline, reefs and cayes of Belize are so vast and varied that any one of us could spend a lifetime just trying to see them all.... and I would suspect that each of them, even as the single flower blooms amongst the burning desert sands, holds its own mysterious beauty. Belize will beckon me again and I will answer the call anxiously.

You are absolutley right, and I think my negativitey was because I was over compensating for something. NO!! Not that!! I read a bunch of articles and trip reports and saw some pics, all obviously about the atolls now that I have been there, but very misleading about the rest of Belize. The reefs at Ambergris were nice, but not what I expected based on those reports.

I just don't want someone else to go on the same assumption, then feel a little let down. Enjoy Ambergris for what it IS. Don't go on a date with Julia Roberts and expect her to be Erin Brokovich, that sort of thing. And while you shouldn't complain about being able to date Julia, I shouldn't be so harsh about diving in the Caribbean, after all, I could have been stuck in Joisey last week!!!

[etski]

In true Pup fashion! Well said. What took you so long??

Thanx again to everyone that worked so hard to make this trip happen

the diving was good, the blue hole a worthwhile experience and the atoll wall diving was the perfect finale for me!

Sorry I missed the diving on the north end, it sounds like it could be a hidden gem in Belize. Could really make the "dive resort" a hit.

Any new info on that? Haven't seen any of the details that were promised. Contact info, contract, references, etc. If the offer is really only good till the end of the year, they should have some paperwork to show us real soon!

Thanks everyone for all the pics posted. Drew, can you post your nurse shark videos?

It was my first singledivers trip and I have to say, just as everyone else does, that it was a great group and a fun time.

I probably won't be on another trip till the spring/summer (after ski season), but I look forward to diving with you all again.

Come visit and ski in Utah!

[divzac]

Here is a small part of the Belize trip as seen from yours truly......



http://www.youtube.c...os?user=zacshac

[Neptuner]

I certainly hope I am dead wrong, but let me tell you all a few things I learned, and what I saw from the Saphire group that set me off. I could very well be wrong.

A few years back, a really good friend of my parents, like a second father to me, lost someone close to him. A well known "psychic" was coming to the NY area, and this poor guy was gonna shell out over a grand to "talk" to the person he lost.

Why tell you all that? Because of that I went to a seminar on scam artists, one that focused a good deal on this particular slime ball. But that seminar opened with what they called a "Real Estate Round Table".

The format was similar, in this case golf. They were careful to point out it wasn't a timeshare, though might as well be. They used the "Ron Popiel" sales pitch, what would you expect to pay for "X", well, we'll sell it for "Y", but WAIT, just for you, if you act now you'll get it for "Z"!!! The 3 salesman interupted each other and threw numbers around just the four we saw did. They compared their resort to similar ones, just like the 4 we saw did. They offered a great price, but then an even better one, just like ours did.

They talked about how they weren't planning to make money on the starter group, they just wanted to get the ball rolling, and that would entice the people paying the full amount to come too.

They even mentioned a key tactic was not being ready to sign people up today. You see, that puts you at ease because you think of scammers as hit and run types. Since they couldn't sign you that day they must therefor be legit.

As for them not having floor plans? I am sure even in Belize you need some kind of a permit and have to meet some kind of building code. Surely at least their insurance company demands such. They either weren't prepared for the question, or they are really flying by the seat of their pants, starting to clear land and now they have to redo the entire drawing, reorder materials and all that because they are changing the layout, at the last minute. Does that not sound funny to anyone else? It sounds to me like they might just be being agreeable, but since there are no real plans to build, they can certainly agree to redo an entire village on a whim, 5 months before completing that phase of the project, that has only just barely gotten started.

Again, I could be wrong. I REALLY hope I am. But seeing all those key points brought up in a seminar I saw years ago, what kind of friend would I be if I didn't try to point them out?

Hi Drew!

I would agree with you wholeheartedly that sharing any and all information with your friends concerning any past experiences, especially if you think it may apply to the situation at hand, is definitely the right thing to do. As a friend, I sincerely appreciate your remarks in that respect. We've all had good and bad experiences in life that may or may not be pertinent, but it's always nice to consider other possibilities and that's all I was trying to point out as well. I've seen high class businessmen in $2000 suits rob people blind and I've seen a millionaire wear ratty old blue jeans into one of his own banks just to see how he was treated... it's a challenging world we live in at times, there is no doubt about that. I think it is prudent for all of us to remain skeptical until such time as things are more clearly defined all the way around.

More importantly, the entire proposal set aside, I personally felt that they gave us a fair shake. I felt as if SD and Sapphire held up to their end of the bargain, so I was willing to hold up mine. That's just my opinion, for what little it is worth, but that's really all I wanted to convey.

'Nuff said... lets' dive baby!

[WreckWench]

In true Pup fashion! Well said. What took you so long??

Sorry I missed the diving on the north end, it sounds like it could be a hidden gem in Belize. Could really make the "dive resort" a hit.

Any new info on that? Haven't seen any of the details that were promised. Contact info, contract, references, etc. If the offer is really only good till the end of the year, they should have some paperwork to show us real soon!

Yes they sent me the contract and I will post it in the private forum. I am also posting the results of our 4+ hour meeting the next day on hammaring out the 'reality' of a dive resort!

Sorry for the delay...the issue has been with me not them. I should be caught up by tomorrow.

Please compile any questions you have in the same forum we did the surveys in!

[ScubaPunk]

Here is a small part of the Belize trip as seen from yours truly......


http://www.youtube.c...os?user=zacshac

Thanks Zach. Those are amazing pics. You always do such a great job with the camera.

[Neptuner]

Yeah, that slideshow was great Zach, thanks for sharing it!

By the way, who was that ugly guy on the dock... might want to pick your subjects more carefully next time!

Actually, thanks to everyone who took pics and shared (or is sharing) them, especially the underwater ones. I know you all have a great deal of time and money wrapped up in your photography and I for one appreciate being able to share in the fruits of YOUR labor. Thanks everybody!

Pup

[divzac]

Yeah, that slideshow was great Zach, thanks for sharing it!

By the way, who was that ugly guy on the dock... might want to pick your subjects more carefully next time!



Pup

......OOhhh! You mean the one where the "STARS" fade in and out around them???????