102 replies to this topic

[WreckWench]

Admitting birth date by month and day only is not an option, so I changed the year on mine.

Prior to implementing the new security updates we had patched the old software to allow you to ONLY enter day and month of your birthdate. Unfortunately the new s/w wiped all those patches out of which there have been many on the site including custom skins, this feature and other things like passing the screen name of the member when they pay via paypal so we don't have to guess who just gave us money.

Once we finish all the bugs, we'll then try to recreate all the previous patches we had including this one.

[WreckWench]

Admitting birth date by month and day only is not an option, so I changed the year on mine.

Actually, it became an option a while ago. This is why you will see some members celebrating their birthday without their age being listed by their name.

Although I'm 3rd generation "I don't give a ****" about who knows what about me - I do respect those who are not thrilled about these changes.

So much so, I went in and tried to set the year of my birth (1948) to "--" - and got an error message.

Either complete all the birthdate fields, or leave them all blank - we cannot process partial birthdates

So, despite what Michelle said, it don't look like it works the way she said it does. Not that I'm disagreeing with a woman, or a barrister, or a Canadian national, or the SO of one of the owners - but....

Prior to implementing the new security updates we had patched the old software to allow you to ONLY enter day and month of your birthdate. Unfortunately the new s/w wiped all those patches out of which there have been many on the site including custom skins, this feature and other things like passing the screen name of the member when they pay via paypal so we don't have to guess who just gave us money.

Once we finish all the bugs, we'll then try to recreate all the previous patches we had including this one.

[WreckWench]

I don't care who looks at my profile. I just hope "I" don't creep any of you out by my stalking!!! I have a tendancy to forget I have looked at someones and look again and again!!!! I just don't retain the info for very long........sorry!!!

I would like to know though, Can everyone see my address or is it just me??????

Your address is part of your profile but it is NOT visible to anyone other than yourself and the admins. There are many fields that we protect like this. No worries...


And you don't creep anyone out...

[secretsea18]

Hi folks,
This reply is from me-the-systems-librarian (in other words, what I do for a livin'). What we've got here is another example of social networking, which is all the rage in Web 2.0 (interactive web) circles. Examples: FaceBook, MySpace, del.icio.us (a web-based bookmarking site where users can optionally share their bookmarks for all to see, and you can jump laterally from your bookmarks to those of others), Flickr (photo sharing site), YouTube, Friendster (an early site with dating-related underpinnings), Twitter etc. For an example from the plain old business world... have you ever been on Amazon.com and see it refer to "people who bought book X also bought book Y"? Yes.. social networking!

{snip}
We will see more and more migration like this, no matter what the site. That is not to say that visibility of profiles on sites cannot or should not be managed according to user discretion. Although I have nothing to do with our site administration, I am guessing that when our admins migrated to a new system, what was available to them was Web. 2.0-pointing technologies such as what we see here, as Web 1.0 technology is going the way of the dinosaur. "Old-fashioned" (Web 1.0) systems are just that, and for the most part further development of them has been capped if not killed. So any movement to a new system basically has to be in this direction, as that's what there is. (wow, how Zen of me!) There may be administrative hooks that our admins can put in place as they get to know the system better to limit visibility on our site, but that also varies from system to system. OK, 'nuff yakking from me!

Is there any way to block or opt out of the others viewing the visitors of members profiles, other than the member themself?
While the latest fad is to expose information all about yourself online, it is a very dangerous thing. I do not allow my information even on such public sites to be looked at by anyone other than those to whom I extend an invitation. I think all of you who have personal info on Facebook, etc sites are crazy to put up that sort of stuff in the public domain. I could care less what the "trend" is... I really don't want or have any need for anybody to know or see personal information, basically it's TMI!

I am probably "googled" by my patients on a weekly (and they tell me they do it!) if not daily basis. I am very careful to NOT have any personal information in cyberland. It is well documented that employers "google" prospective employees in certain situations. While it is well know that there are many occasions where you are videotaped going about doing normal business in a city that does not translate into having the opportunity to view each and every person who visits a SD member's profile as public knowledge.

[ScubaStacy]

I don't care who looks at my profile. I just hope "I" don't creep any of you out by my stalking!!! I have a tendancy to forget I have looked at someones and look again and again!!!! I just don't retain the info for very long........sorry!!!

I would like to know though, Can everyone see my address or is it just me??????

Hey ScubaSis - I'm right there with you!

Especially when I read a post that makes me laugh or is very interesting I like to see who wrote it - but my short term memory is shot! So I may look at the same profile before I realize it looks familiar! Isn't there an old joke about being senile and meeting new people every day?


Stacy

[ScubaDadMiami]

Of course, now that you have indicated an interest in opting out, I just had to click on your profiles!

[DandyDon]

Is there any way to block or opt out of the others viewing the visitors of members profiles, other than the member themself?
While the latest fad is to expose information all about yourself online, it is a very dangerous thing. I do not allow my information even on such public sites to be looked at by anyone other than those to whom I extend an invitation. I think all of you who have personal info on Facebook, etc sites are crazy to put up that sort of stuff in the public domain. I could care less what the "trend" is... I really don't want or have any need for anybody to know or see personal information, basically it's TMI!

Well, profiles here are optional, but a good idea, and are open only to Premier members, not the public. Since the discussion has opened up to social networking on the net, I'll throw out various ideas here...

I was surprised when Stacy answered my joking question and posted her real name; I never do, nor my actual small town, nor my real Birthday by year - here, on myspace, elsewhere. I have sidestepped plenty of cons trying to score on a lonely old man on the net, and while I don't think paranoia is indicated, certain protections are. Some stalkers are actually strange enough to drive by (had that happen once I know of, even as remote as I am, when I used to publicize more before internet), and of course - women and/or professionals in your position have more possible concerns.

All that said, I do open up somewhat, here and on myspace, as a partial introduction. I don't want to hide from the world, but then it is indeed easier for me: male, low profile locally, remote. Certainly worth serious consideration before advertising too much.

I am probably "googled" by my patients on a weekly (and they tell me they do it!) if not daily basis. I am very careful to NOT have any personal information in cyberland. It is well documented that employers "google" prospective employees in certain situations. While it is well know that there are many occasions where you are videotaped going about doing normal business in a city that does not translate into having the opportunity to view each and every person who visits a SD member's profile as public knowledge.

In some online situations I do think it is reasonable to forfeit anonymity usually enjoyed on social sites. When I do plan on meeting anyone in person, for a SD.com trip, local dives, lunch, whatever - then real names, cell phone numbers and some more info seems appropriate. The following is a little extreme, but in some personal situations I will email a copy of my drivers license - even suggesting they google me for their peace of mind or even spend money to check on me at whitepages.com if they feel a need for example. I haven't gone that far in confirming info on a lady, but then it wouldn't be a bad idea to make sure she's actually single and not a felon, depending on the situation, and I have declined some personal meetings when the lady didn't want to send her DL. Had to wonder what she wanted to hide, what could I be getting into.

Well, food for thot anyway; don't risk indegestion.

Especially when I read a post that makes me laugh or is very interesting I like to see who wrote it - but my short term memory is shot! So I may look at the same profile before I realize it looks familiar! Isn't there an old joke about being senile and meeting new people every day?

You might try take screen shots, then saving in a folder.

Edited by DandyDon, 23 March 2008 - 10:39 PM.

[WreckWench]

A few comments since specifically requested regarding the new software upgrade:

1. We proceeded with the software upgrade to implement much needed security patches. We have not upgraded the board's software in well over a year so many changes have been made in the site's software by the developer and it was well past time to implement them.

2. Software upgrades such as these are ALWAYS challenging...and despite what some webmasters may tell you...they have nothing to do with the new and improved or as it may be 'un-improved' site features. They are as cat fish astutely recognized...part of the package deal. Implement security features and get all the board's enhancements...good, bad or indifferent.

3. Until now the admins have been struggling with trying to get our basic look and feel back to working the way it was prior to the upgrade. Things such as member name NOT passing with the paypal information makes it nearly impossible to know who paid us money to be a premier member and NO people do not enter that info in thier payment details...they assume the system tracks it. And it USED to but we lost it with the new software and have had to spend time and resources to get it back. This is one of DOZENS AND DOZENS of similar patches, fixes, tweaks, enhancements that were LOST when we did the upgrade. Now add to that all the things that NO LONGER TALK TO EACH OTHER....like the home page not talking to our new e-commerce shopping cart, nor to the message board etc. Slowly we've been trying to fix these things and they take time....LOTS OF TIME. Time which as many of you know is graciously given by volunteers who love this site and do it for nothing more than knowing they are supporting a cause and idea that they care about. Mind you this is their choice and they gladly do it...but they have been busy trying to fix the BIG stuff that has been broken rather than worry about the cosmetic/feature changes that also came along with the upgrade.

4. In the course of fixing the stuff that has been broken we noticed that some of you have started to comment on the new features. While this discussion has been interesting to say the least, for the most part it has been insightful and as long as it remains respectful it will be allowed to continue so that we can make better informed decisions about the new features we 'inherited' with the security updates we needed.

5. As many have noted the world is moving toward 'social networking' and the developers of this software are no different than anyone else. They want you to enjoy using the features of this site and they want it to be similar to experiences that millions of you indicate by your usage that you like...facebook/myspace types of sites, etc.

6. As noted ONLY Premier members and above can see profiles on this site. To do so they have had to provide personal and financial information to the administrators of this site. By not allowing basic members to see your profiles or have pm access to you we have REMOVED the ability of the casual "lurker" as we call them to view your profile. This has eliminated most chances for people to be mischievious or worse. In fact the only way someone can 'stalk' you via our site is to take the information YOU provide in your profile such as yahoo and msn identity etc and then track you that way. And yes some members have been able to contact our members via their yahoo, msn identities but not usually for sinister reasons...but rather to beat the system and to contact someone without paying our nominal $35 membership fee that is needed to privately communicate with other premeir members.

7. It seems on the broadbrush that being able to see who has looked at a profile indicates a number of things about the site such as the members on this site are active, they want to meet new members, they hope to have something in common with you and yes they want to eventually meet you or someone else to go diving. Or perhaps they are signed up on a trip and want to get to know the other members on that trip better. ALL OF THESE REASONS ARE EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT THE SITE TO BE ABLE TO DO FOR YOU. We want all the features on the site to enhance your enjoyment of the site as well as your personal safety and comfort.

8. As you all get a chance to use the new features and perhaps some of you will even upgrade to see what all the buzz is about...we'll evaluate your feedback to our own evaluation of the site's new features and then make decisions as to whether the ability to see who has looked at your profile will act as a deterent to those who have 'sinister' motives or it is inherently sinister itself.

9. Perhaps knowing that you are leaving a cookie crumb trail of your movements you'll think twice about any less than above board motives on your part. Or perhaps now empowering our entire community to keep a watchful eye out for each other will reveal suspicious behaviour BEFORE it becomes a problem or at least more timely than the handful of admins that we have can detect the same trend.

It is your community. It is what you make of it. If you do not want your movements tracked then reveal nothing about yourself and all we'll know is member xyz, female has looked at 22 member profiles on the site and commenting in 13 threads starting 4 topics. And we'll know what you choose to provide in your member profiles as well. However all but which members you've looked at (or has looked at you) has been previously available all along. And why would you worry who knows if you've looked at a profile? We should be curious to look at EVERYONE's profiles and want to get to know EVERYONE on the site!

p.s. I do want tp specifically address this statement:

It's not like the admins and mods couldn't see who was PMing and viewing member pages anyway.

No the admins and mods could not see who viewed your profile until now. And that is why we are asking our community to help us keep an eye out for each other...let us know if you think something is suspicious...chances are you'll know well before we do. As for seeing who pm'd who...we could see how many people were using their personal messenger and even if a specific member was using the tool...however we can not see without digging very deep into the code who sent what to whom. So only those admins with the root admin keys can access PARTIAL pm info and this is tedious, time consuming, and risky so rarely done.

Thank you all for your comments. We are certainly watching with interest and we are poised to make the best decisions that we can for the safety, enjoyment and well fare of our members and our site.

[WreckWench]

I really don't want to know who looked at my profile or see records displayed of everyones' online activity, including my own. What is the purpose of these features? I can't think of another message board that is set up like this other than searching for "last posts" "threads started by" and "photos posted."
Edited by Wreckwench Reason for edit: Title changed to reflect the new software's tracking and not SD.com.

Wreck wench, I notice you edited the title of this thread. OK, the software does the tracking and not SD. The initial question still has not been answered. Why would SD chose this type of software in the first place?

First HomeLand Security does not do as good of job of tracking you as this new software does!

Now that I've cleared that myth along with the myth that the system and not SD is tracking you...no not you personally Ellen but individuals...I can address your final question.

When SingleDivers.com was found 4 years ago we looked at ALL the online message board software platforms that were being used at the time and chose one that no one else in the diving space was using. We STILL have the same platform and it only changes when we do software upgrades. We did not develop the software, we purchased it. Just as every online diving community I know has also done...purchased or found a message board system that they could use for free. The IT talent inside of these types of communities will often tweak or enhance the out-of-box software but they rarely if ever are the developer.

And once you have chosen a platform...to change to another platform is vitual cyber-suicide in my opinion. You risk losing some, most or all of your existing discussions, profiles, forums, databases, etc.

So we have remained with the same platform we chose 4 years ago and we periodically update the software to encompass the newest security patches, functionality and features. Then we work on tweaking the features to better serve our needs.

Each time we do this we invite discussion from our members along the lines of this discussion. They share what they like, what is not working and what they do not like. We then do the best that we can to best serve the needs of our community with the resources we have available.

I have further addressed your question in the preceding post #70 here.

[ScubaStacy]

Is there any way to block or opt out of the others viewing the visitors of members profiles, other than the member themself?
While the latest fad is to expose information all about yourself online, it is a very dangerous thing. I do not allow my information even on such public sites to be looked at by anyone other than those to whom I extend an invitation. I think all of you who have personal info on Facebook, etc sites are crazy to put up that sort of stuff in the public domain. I could care less what the "trend" is... I really don't want or have any need for anybody to know or see personal information, basically it's TMI!

Well, profiles here are optional, but a good idea, and are open only to Premier members, not the public. Since the discussion has opened up to social networking on the net, I'll throw out various ideas here...

I was surprised when Stacy answered my joking question and posted her real name; I never do, nor my actual small town, nor my real Birthday by year - here, on myspace, elsewhere. I have sidestepped plenty of cons trying to score on a lonely old man on the net, and while I don't think paranoia is indicated, certain protections are. Some stalkers are actually strange enough to drive by (had that happen once I know of, even as remote as I am, when I used to publicize more before internet), and of course - women and/or professionals in your position have more possible concerns.

All that said, I do open up somewhat, here and on myspace, as a partial introduction. I don't want to hide from the world, but then it is indeed easier for me: male, low profile locally, remote. Certainly worth serious consideration before advertising too much.

I am probably "googled" by my patients on a weekly (and they tell me they do it!) if not daily basis. I am very careful to NOT have any personal information in cyberland. It is well documented that employers "google" prospective employees in certain situations. While it is well know that there are many occasions where you are videotaped going about doing normal business in a city that does not translate into having the opportunity to view each and every person who visits a SD member's profile as public knowledge.

In some online situations I do think it is reasonable to forfeit anonymity usually enjoyed on social sites. When I do plan on meeting anyone in person, for a SD.com trip, local dives, lunch, whatever - then real names, cell phone numbers and some more info seems appropriate. The following is a little extreme, but in some personal situations I will email a copy of my drivers license - even suggesting they google me for their peace of mind or even spend money to check on me at whitepages.com if they feel a need for example. I haven't gone that far in confirming info on a lady, but then it wouldn't be a bad idea to make sure she's actually single and not a felon, depending on the situation, and I have declined some personal meetings when the lady didn't want to send her DL. Had to wonder what she wanted to hide, what could I be getting into.

Well, food for thot anyway; don't risk indegestion.

Especially when I read a post that makes me laugh or is very interesting I like to see who wrote it - but my short term memory is shot! So I may look at the same profile before I realize it looks familiar! Isn't there an old joke about being senile and meeting new people every day?

You might try take screen shots, then saving in a folder.

DandyDon - I tried to send this to you via PM but no go????


Ha! You're a funny guy! Glad my poor memory is a source of amusement for you..... LOL I just might take screenshots - but then won't remember why I did it! LOL

And my name is all over the web from my professional life, (I teach and speak publically in the government arena) now even my salary!
Because I work closely with law enforcement in every county in CA and they all love me (well or really owe me favors) and a ton at the national level, not to mention the cyber squirrels.... I don't worry about it.

I usually don't just put it out there, like I did yesterday, but (edited by Stacy this time - for her own good!) trying to make a point but ended up getting edited, and now I"m going to be late for work. At least my priorities are clear!

Anyway....... :-) Have a nice day!
Stacy

[pir8]

And once you have chosen a platform...to change to another platform is vitual cyber-suicide in my opinion. You risk losing some, most or all of your existing discussions, profiles, forums, databases, etc.

I have seen this happen before with a Scuba Pro board that I was/am on from before. They upgraded the board after being hacked and never recovered.

Edited by pir8, 24 March 2008 - 07:54 AM.

[DandyDon]

DandyDon - Ha! You're a funny guy!

Anyway....... :-) Have a nice day!
Stacy

I try, thanks! You're kinda funny, too. It's all in fun...!

[ScubaSis]

I don't care who looks at my profile. I just hope "I" don't creep any of you out by my stalking!!! I have a tendancy to forget I have looked at someones and look again and again!!!! I just don't retain the info for very long........sorry!!!

I would like to know though, Can everyone see my address or is it just me??????

Hey ScubaSis - I'm right there with you!

Especially when I read a post that makes me laugh or is very interesting I like to see who wrote it - but my short term memory is shot! So I may look at the same profile before I realize it looks familiar! Isn't there an old joke about being senile and meeting new people every day?


Stacy

Hey girl, at least we won't get bored!!!

[WreckWench]

My coments in RED.

I actually find it a bit comforting that the admins now have some means in place to make it easier to see it someone is paying undue attention to anyone or any group of individuals on the website.

It seems to us that this is exactly what this tool will do for us. However it also empowers our community to keep a watchful eye out for each other. And hopefully it will act as a deterent to those who have less than ideal motives. PRIOR to this we have not been able to track such information.

Is it Orwell's 1984? No. Far from it. I think most of us see 1984 as the fiction that it is or a bad Apple Computer commercial. In all likelihood, the ones squeaking about the perceived "creepiness" or the supposed "Big Brother" analogies would be the first ones squeaking about the 'lack' of SD's concern for them if someone was stalking them or a stalking incident occurred and SD had no way to track them.

While I would not state nor imply (and I believe you meant your comment rhetorically and not as a specific attack against anyone just as the thread title is rhetorical and not meant as a direct attack against SingleDivers.com) that those who worry about the implications of their activity on the site being tracked would be the same individuals that would complain if we were not able to catch a pervert or stalker in the act expeditiously... I would hope that all members would be concerned that we were not able to do this. It seems the developers of this software have meant this tool to do just that as we have NEVER had this ability in the past.

While these tools could possibly be abused, I seriously doubt any of the admins have nothing better to do than to 'watch' what each of us does. I assume that my moves are logged somewhere, I assume they have always been available to the admins, now, they seem to be equally visible to the Premier Members and above whose accounts I have some affect on.

Actually the moves of members are not tracked and would be a huge bandwidth hog if they were. So while you are correct that admins have better things to do other than watch our members...part of our role is to welcome new members and see if they want information on membership, where they want to dive etc. Therefore we do try to check as many profiles of our members as possible. So no...Kimmie aka Fingrabber is only doing her job as an admin when she checks your profile or any other admin for that matter. What is nice about having this information now available to everyone is that we can all work to ensure that our community is safer and fun. REMEMBER...this feature is only available to a small subset of our community...those who are premier members and above. And each of these members have provided personal and financial information about themselves giving us recourse against them if we ever needed it. But our guess is...it simply won't happen. Part of the surprise I think is that the same old information for the most part is now visible in a different way...and until people get used to it and figure it out...it will concern them. Hence these viable discussions from all sides of the equation.

I don't feel any insecurity, nor do I feel I have anything to hide when I post, view a thread, start a thread or even look at my fellow member's profile. Granted, I don't do a lot of any of these things, but honestly, how are we to get to know each other if we don't look at each other's profiles?

We hope ALL our members feel the same way...they have nothing to hide and they have no sinister motives or ulterior motives when they post, check out others in the community and veiw profiles. However please keep in mind that we have LOCKED THOSE FEATURES out for basic members. They can not see the member list. They can not see your profile. They can not pm people. All they can do is post in the public domain. In this way they are no harm to our community. Oliver you are right...you can't learn about someone unless you can see their profiles. And our profiles do not ask alot of personal questions. Info about why you joined, your address, membership etc is ALL HIDDEN from everyone except the admins.

I am not a premier member and can't see these functions, I don't have PM capabilities, so apparently these new features are only available to Premier Members and above...

Correct. This feature is ONLY available to our premier members and above. If we had 10,000 premier members and above we'd probably NOT be able to offer this feature due to storage and database issues alone from storing tracking info. However we are a much SMALLER and tighter community than that, so, so far I do not see the issues people fear that if you look at someone's profile you are now stalking them or 'hitting on them'. We are NOT a dating site so seeing who has looked at your profile is an idicator of future dive buddies...NOT people trying to hit on you or pick you up. (Ok a few of us might want someone to hit on us but that has never been the focus of our site. We just want to DIVE. If chemistry happens great...if not...so what!) Just because you can now see who has seen your profile does not mean we've automatically become a dating site or become a site full of stalkers. Heck SD has always been a combo of the dating sites and message boards from its inception. We are like the dating sites in that we do not allow avatars that are not you. We REQUIRE your pictures be of yourself. Message boards allow anything for an avatar. We are also like the dating sites because we make you "pay to play" meaning you can't communicate privately with other premier members unless you are a paid member. We are like message boards in that we allow open communication via the forums and public posting. We are unlike message boards in that we do not allow you to post private emails, addresses, phone numbers etc in the threads. This is for your safety and that of our community. So you see we have always been similar to both the message board and online dating communities. And now due to the new look and feel of the board's software we are now like the Social Networking Communities too.

Have you become so afraid of who you are and what you do that we can't honestly 'visit' each other even in a virtual world? Isn't that the reason for having a profile in the first place? Or did everyone fill in bogus information to the fields they didn't want to be honest about?

This is a question only members can reply for themselves. If you do not want someone checking out your profile then do not post a picture, do not post and do not put anything in your profile. However if you want to get to know other people and meet lots of new dive buddies...then post your picture, create a profile and post in the community so we can get to know you!

[bowjunkie]

I think it's kinda cool not that anyone would look at an old rednecks profile lol but from the old days of playing on "IRC" this is a great tool ,nice thing is if someone keeps hitting your buttons it can and would be checked out alot faster . As Stacy put it hell I can't remember s@#$ most of the time anyway lol so I ding the button again and say oops been here done this

Ed