221 replies to this topic

[drbill]

Agree with CT that women as a group do not have as consistent a set of expectations as they did when I was really dating a lot (yes, grandpa). You can be polite and hold a door open, and get slapped in the face (usually not literally) for being a male chauvinist. Heck, I hold the door for anyone behind me regardless of gender (exceptions: serial killers and armed terrorists). Of course in a normal, diver population you would not want expectations to all be alike. I'm just saying that the "rules" were more universally accepted when I was younger.

I always try to treat women with the utmost respect (unless they prove they deserve otherwise, then I just don't treat them at all). I think it came from growing up with three younger sisters whose honor I tried to protect (little did I realize they didn't want it protected! so naive of me).

And men often talk about the women who say they want a gentleman, yet fall head over heels for a "bad boy." What's THAT all about? I guess many men do the same, but if a woman were dishonest with me or treated me badly, she wouldn't spend any time with me in the future (well, I guess I'll have to make an exception for the whips and handcuffs the Ladies of SD enjoy using).

I do have a pretty narrow set of criteria I look for in a woman. In general Catalina is not the place to find what I'm looking for (except in the dive park or on the dive boats).

I am fairly independent and don't need a woman in my life. I don't believe in dating just to date, or to have sex either (I like my love making with a woman I care for and communicate well with). I have far fewer hours than I need each day to get things done. However, I would enjoy the enrichment a compatible woman would bring to my life.

Don't settle for less than you feel you deserve, but don't set your sights so high that no one could fulfill your wants.

Dr. Bill

[scubahoney]

I totally agree with you about women going for the bad boy. This will be my attempt to explain that (b/c i'm guilty of it too). it's a turn on to have guys flirt with me, but a HUGE turn-off when a man tries to hard (i.e. sending a huge bouquet of flowers after barely knowing them or pressuring them with phone calls, etc). i don't go out looking for the "bad guy"..it's kind of like..w/ them it's more mysterious and there's moer of a chase. I know that sounds lame, and I'm sorry, but that is really how it goes...at least in my opinion. I don't like the guys that bend over backwards to please me all the time b/c i get the feeling they are doing it to make me happy and not themselves. I dont' want to be in a relationship where i'm the only one who's needs are being meet, it makes me unhappy and uncomfortable. It makes me feel selfish. What we want...men listen up....
We want a guy who will hold the door open for us, someone who will bring us flowers every now and again...but because they want to, not because they feel they have to keep us. I like a guy who can hold his own when I'm not around..somone who doesn't NEED me (needy guys..you know those type?!). Just like Drbill said...being independent is a great quality and it lets me know that you are a whole person..not someone looking to fill a gap.
I know that made little sense...but it is 1:30 in the A.M. I think you can get the idea I was aiming for.

[drbill]

SH- I understand what you're saying re the "bad boy."

It used to be (maybe still is) that when two people fell "head over heels," they both derived much happiness from pleasing the other. Of course the intensity of such a mutual attraction wears off over time.

I've seen a number of women who remain with men who treat them poorly (physical and/or verbal abuse, ignoring them, etc.), don't match their intelligence level, are poor communicators, etc. I can't imagine doing the same with a woman who treated me like that (I did have one girlfriend who literally decked me with a punch... when the police arrived, they asked ME if I was OK! She was a very hot-tempered Latina.).

We both (genders) want relationships based on maturity and a level of independence, rather parasitic or clingy. I've had a few of the latter and they really turned me off, so I can understand what SH is saying about the equivalent in a man.

Wouldn't it be nice to find a relationship with enough mystery to continue exciting us and enough communication and honesty to cement us?

Yes, it's Saturday night and like a few others I'm at the keyboard. Did go down to the local karaoke place and ran into a few divers there (male) as well as several female friends. Didn't meet anyone new so I'm back at home before curfew!

Dr. Bill

[scubahoney]

LOL, drbill...I went out to but only to tell some crazy guy i know to leave me alone..back before curfew here too!

[drbill]

SH- I hope you don't feel bad about it (going out and getting back before curfew). Remember, we're independent people and can survive without love (sigh).

Dr. Bill

[DivingGal]

When I can.... last one, last month. The one before that... yikes a long time (sigh)

I go out with friends a lot of the time, but I wouldn't call them "dates".

[NormsKid]

Most of my "dates" are with people that I've met doing some activity that I like. I've met guys at the gym where I work out, I've met some playing sports...but I don't really solicit "dates" per se...I solicit the friendship an if it turns into more somewhere down the line, that's just a bonus.

I think the last "date" that I had in the traditional sense of the word was a couple years ago. I went out with a guy I met online via my personals ad.

Michelle

[Walter]

And men often talk about the women who say they want a gentleman, yet fall head over heels for a "bad boy." What's THAT all about?

it's a turn on to have guys flirt with me, but a HUGE turn-off when a man tries to hard (i.e. sending a huge bouquet of flowers after barely knowing them or pressuring them with phone calls, etc). i don't go out looking for the "bad guy"..it's kind of like..w/ them it's more mysterious and there's moer of a chase............I don't like the guys that bend over backwards to please me all the time b/c i get the feeling they are doing it to make me happy and not themselves. I dont' want to be in a relationship where i'm the only one who's needs are being meet, it makes me unhappy and uncomfortable.

Excellent points here if people will pay attention.

Most women prefer a gentleman. They prefer a strong, confident, decisive, funny gentleman. Most gentlemen are, unfortunately not strong, confident, decisive or funny. Most "bad boys" are. When gentlemen are bending over backwards demonstrating how weak, unsure, indecisive and serious they are, most women will look for that "bad boy" who has qualities that are attractive.

The sad thing is most of these gentlemen have those qualities until they get around a woman who they find attractive. They get serious about the chase and stop being funny. They want the woman to find them attractive, so they try to please her all the time. Ironic, they want to be attractive, so they do things women find unattractive.

There is truth to the old advice, "be yourself." If you are strong, confident, decisive and funny let the women who attract you know it by being these things when you're around them. Stop rolling over for them. Joke around, tease her, make decisions. You can still be a gentleman, and you should, just remember, acting weak is a fatal mistake.

it's more mysterious and there's more of a chase

Another excellent point. Don't bare your soul. Yes, be honest,but don't tell everything at once. Getting to know each other should take time. Let her chase you some. You like chasing her, she likes chasing you. Let her. Let her know you're interested, but make her wonder just how much. The tension will build, you'll both have fun. Take it slow, don't get serious quickly. If it's right, there will be time for seriousness later.

Well, that's my opinion and yes, I've blown it in every single one of those ways in the past. Hopefully I've learned my lesson.

[triggerfish]

gee, walter, ain't it the truth?? we all have good solid advice for one another...learned, unfortunately, the hard way!!!

[Walter]

gee, walter, ain't it the truth?? we all have good solid advice for one another...learned, unfortunately, the hard way!!!

Darlin',

This aint rocket science. It's simple stuff. Why didn't I know this as a teenager? 30 years later, I'm starting to "get it." The problem is our culture teaches us the opposite. Sappy love songs teach us to be unattractive. Movies teach us to be unattractive. Anyone see Bed of Roses with Christian Slater? Who thinks that bull was realistic? What do men do? They follow those poor examples and get shot down. Who is usually attracted to us? Women we don't find attractive. Why? Because we feel comfortable to be ourselves around them and show them we are strong, confident, decisive and funny. The minute we realize we are attracted to a woman, we unknowingly start playing a role. That role is a turn off.

Walter

[triggerfish]

MAN!!!!! so true. having 3 brothers, i was (and still am) a tomboy (do you realize little girls today don't know what a tomboy is???). every guy's best bud. confide in me about the "girlie girl" who won't give you a second look (to quote doc, what am i...chopped liver???).

so i tried to be girlie-girl, too...and yep, there were the guys...but it never worked cuz the person i really was eventually come out (ok, ok....the PEOPLE WE ARE...).
i've been as close as 1 week to the wedding with the bottom falling out (to which i can now say THANK GOD!!).


i am NOT, nor never will be, A SIZE 4. but i'll be able to help you carry the stove up 3 flights of stairs and not whine when i break a nail.

i don't need lavish gifts. but i appreciate a goofy refrigerator magnet.

i don't need fancy on vacation....hot water is great (after all, the only vacations i take are for diving!!). and i DON'T bring 12 outfits either....maybe a clean t-shirt....

i have male friends i love (they're still confiding) and will continue to see no matter what.

i'm not impressed by cars, fancy homes, armani suits (tho they DO make a guy look GREAT!), but i'm impressed as hell by someone who is kind to other human beings just because it's the right thing to do (you know who you are, SD boys...)

and while i can cuss like a rapper (was gonna say 'sailor'!), and i usually wear jeans, i will leave you breathless in bed.

so now, what you see is what you get. life is too short to try to be someone's idea of perfect. and now it's funny...lots of married men i know wish they had a woman like me.

Edited by triggerfish, 09 May 2004 - 08:53 AM.

[scubahoney]

(YODA) Most women prefer a gentleman. They prefer a strong, confident, decisive, funny gentleman. Most gentlemen are, unfortunately not strong, confident, decisive or funny. Most "bad boys" are. When gentlemen are bending over backwards demonstrating how weak, unsure, indecisive and serious they are, most women will look for that "bad boy" who has qualities that are attractive.

There is truth to the old advice, "be yourself." If you are strong, confident, decisive and funny let the women who attract you know it by being these things when you're around them. Stop rolling over for them. Joke around, tease her, make decisions. You can still be a gentleman, and you should, just remember, acting weak is a fatal mistake.

Exactly! I want a strong guy that is strong in his own right, not physically (well, that helps too though...damn tanks are heavy)
Be yourself guys...don't be insecure...there's enough of that floating around in our own heads, and adding yours is too much to handle!

[mischievous]

LOL! SH, i agree that many men are creeps out there. i went to a mavs game (before the playoffs, so it was a month ago) and the guy (who i've known for a couple of years and we used to date sporadicly and then we just stopped speaking to each other) took me to a club and ran into his busty ex-girlfriend, i asked to be taken home because i ate something awful and wasn't feeling well, and he had to audacity to ask if something was going to "happen" that night because he spent so much money on me. needless to say, i declined and he texted me the next day to tell me what a great time he had and the next week to tell me that he "accidently" slept with his ex and needed advice. whoa!

as for dating...well the last few months i've been getting stood up and those guys that did it seem to be the only ones i've been meeting socially now, so i've kind of been disgusted with the whole thing. remember my post about the guy telling me i was the saddest looking girl on sixth street? he had the most potential that night, sad huh? dating, i don't do it often...i'd rather dress up and go out with female friends and have fun making the guys drool then getting dolled up for a guy only to have a miserable dinner trying to read each other's minds.

unless of course it's an evening with CT in a non-ventilated room!

[GentDiver]

Wow... this has been a learning experience. So a bit of backstory on me. I was married for (cough)17 1/2(cough) years. So I haven't dated in like 20 years prior to last year. Much like scubahoney I'm just trying to figure this whole thing out. I have been seeing someone for about 3 months, but she has "issues" so I'm about to "kick her to the curb" to quote a friend.

Anyway, in the past year I had definitely learned that you can't be a whimp/klingon. You have to respect yourself and in turn respect the lady. I tried the other approach and it just didn't freaking work.

For me I would rather go out to like a wine tasting with a bunch of people then have a 1st - 3rd date.

he texted me the next day to tell me what a great time he had and the next week to tell me that he "accidently" slept with his ex and needed advice.

OMG!!! You have got to be kidding!

[mischievous]

nope...the men i see have mucho mal issues...<sigh>. sad that i date a huge spectrum but they're always the a**h**** of the bunch. <sigh> gonna spend more time diving and having fun than looking for a serious partner for awhile. especially, you'll love this scott, the married/spoken for men that have offered to keep me on the side! big fat NO to that lifestyle.