108 replies to this topic

[jextract]

Somehow the mental picture of a drunk guy with barbecue sauce splatters on him and a sailing cap on his head dancing naked and singing loudly is not comforting to me.....















.... but whatever works for you .......

[ScubaPunk]

Very interesting discussion. We have all been there once or twice or.... anyway I'm surprised the topic hasn't come up sooner. My only advice is to forgive her. Not for her sake, but for yours. Anger and bitterness will eat you up inside. Everything else has already been said. Time, time, time and it WILL get easier.

[Axua]

What won't break you can only make you stronger..

[TatonkaDive]

I also think that often women (yes, even in today's world) are socialized to "please" people, and we therefore don't stand up for ourselves when it comes to those personal things.  We keep trying to please those people in our lives instead of realizing it's ok to say no, or stand up for ourselves, or whatever other issue is at hand.  (I know men can also have similar situations in relationships, and I might get a few negative reactions my specifying that it's women only....)  So we have an additional "barrier" to conquer as well.

Wise words KBScarlett, but I thought that I'd just respond a bit to the portion on women vs. men. I think that we would all agree that the role of women in society continues to evolve and yes, that raises issues such as the ones that you noted. That, by no means makes it any easier for the man who is also trying to adjust to this female evolution as we try to evolve a bit ourselves.

Just as the social stigmas still exist for the women, they still exist for men too. That brings together all sorts of complexities at work, at home, and in relationships. Is it healthy? Absolutely, but don't discount the fact that as women struggle in adjusting to the fact that they are truly are their own identity, men struggle in not only helping women to realize this but also in maintaining an identity of their own.

So I don't disagree with anything that you wrote. I'm only saying that it's not all that easy for us boys either. It all takes some patience, understanding, and communication on both parts.

[TatonkaDive]

On the " a relationship worth having is worth fighting for".......I always thought that if it was a healthy relationship, why would I be put in a position where I had to fight for anything.  That statement has put me into "deep thought" so many times in my life......and still, I feel that I shouldn't ever have to fight for my love, after all, you can't make someone love you if they don't.  Unless it was fighting to save someone's life, or something of that caliber........Back into "DEEP THOUGHT"....
   If anyone knows the answers......please email them to me!

I'm not claiming to have the answers, but I do have an opinion. The phrase "A love worth having is a love worth fighting for" is very true. However, it is not saying "A love worth having is a love worth fighting each other for", which is a very different concept.

As a couple progressing and growing through life, there will continue to be various obstacles that will need to be overcome. These can come in the form of financial, geographical, and obviously personal, just to name a few. Although our hope is that love is perfect and pure, circumstances around that love may rarely be so, especially over time. You may each be in a slightly different place (physically or emotionally), or have a slightly different set of priorities or goals at any given moment. Together you will have to work, even struggle to maintain that love. A love worth fighting for is a love that will overcome such obstacles, to go through pain as a couple (even if that pain is a bit lop-sided and pear-shaped) to make the couplehood work.

A love worth fighting for is bigger than a love just for me. It is a love that makes me a better person and a love that makes her a better person. That is worth the pain. That is worth the effort. A love worth fighting for is worth fighting the odds and the circumstances. It's the stuff that epic novels and movies are made of.

"A love worth having is a love worth fighting for" TOGETHER absolutely rings true. I don't think that the concept was ever meant to imply that to have love you must fight each other...that just makes no sense.


...As a sidebar... sure, along the way you are going to have disagreements and arguments, but even those need to be in and with love. Most of us have naturally had disagreements with parents, but that doesn't mean that I love them any less. As long as it's resolved and both come out with a deeper knowledge and empathy for the other, it should generally be good. It's a natural part of growing together.

[Diverbrian]

Actually, men face a slightly different set of pressures. But they are the same in many ways. My co-workers wondered why I didn't get out of the longest relationship that I was involved with for about two years.

I can't recall the number of times that I caught myself thinking that I could make myself better to please her. By the time that I finally got out, I was getting anxiety attacks thinking about her response to what I was doing and if anything that I had done was done right. I was getting to be like that that proverbial beaten and overtrained dog. I mean I was sweating which way her towels were folded. Her voice went up one little bit and I was mentally shying back in anticipation of being lectured again. Old story, though. And that is in more ways than one. Bottom line is that I am grateful to her in forcing me to confront the issues that led me to see her for 3 1/2 yrs. after studiously avoiding dating between the ages of 20-28 (you won't find any dates in that time frame of my life). I am better for it now.

The catch? ... Women tend to be more social creatures. It is more accepting in society to hear a woman say that she has been hurt and went through this.

The male sub-culture is that any man that would let this happen to him is somewhat less of a man to begin with. "Toughen up! Get stronger!" I could go on, but that is the response from many (far from all) other men in our culture. In some ways, it makes men easier to emotionally abuse than women. We don't tend to have that support network to help us out when we get out of the relationship.

I am still gun-shy at any type of male-female relationship now. If I see the possibilities, I do my best to ignore them. I know where they have led in the past. I don't date, but I do dive. My social network is far better than it was before I took up the sport.

Have fun seeing an open world again. And I don't recommend the short remedies of a mindless fling or alcohol. The problems are still there when you are done. I am quite proud of the fact that I can still keep the list of women that I have been "involved" with on one hand. At least I didn't screw that up!

[cmt489]

The truth of the matter is that I don't think any of us that are single make it past our early twenties without some kind of gut wrenching heartache.

Myself, after being in a relatively brief (2 1/2 years although together for 7 years) but bad marriage, I also understand the fear of relationships and committment. I am afraid to repeat my mistakes or to end up with someone with hidden problems once again.

While it may not be a healthy approach to having your heart shattered, I too have avoided anything that would resemble a committed relationship. Heck, these days I make committment phobic men look like life-long partner material! I have dropped guys in the dust for something as simple as referrnig to me as their "girlfriend" or wanting to spend too much time together. I have friends that joke that if they point out that I may actually like a guy, panic will enter my voice and I will start to justify backing away from the relationship.

Perhaps one day I will be caught off guard and actually settle down with one person again. In the meantime, I find the best way to deal with things is to do what works for you, whether that be going out with your friends, spending quiet nights at home, diving - whatever. What is most important is that you don't shut yourself off from everyone completely. Even if you don't actually speak to your friends about what is going on, I have found that just having them around is important.

Perhaps we should start a singledivers.com 12 step self help group for this problem!!

Michelle

[jextract]

Interesting discussion ... thanks,all!

[drbill]

I've found that with nearly every one of my long-term relationships (> 1 week), only the good memories stick with me. Most of the women involved are still friends even after a decade or more (three for the two oldest). Yes, there was pain at the time... but that's not the lasting memory. Sure it hurt for a while, but not long enough that it prohibited me from seeking out new relationships eventually.

One woman on an Internet site refused to date me because I was still friends with several of my former lovers, and one actually rents one of the rooms in my house (totally platonic- we are like brother and sister now). I found that totally irrational.

I don't carry what I would call "baggage" from these relationships, just good memories. This applies to the women with whom I had something other than a brief dating relationship.

Yes, we all get hurt. Yes, we should all carry what we have learned from previous relationships... if only to remember what we should avoid in the future. But to avoid opening up oneself to a new relationship seems to be a serious limitation of one's potential.

Dr. Bill

[Raven]

Well, I will say that my thoughts lately have been torn. Torn from I would like to think of finding someone that I will eventually happily spend my life with and like Michelle making sure that meeting someone doesn't happen. I am torn by the thoughts of doing what it takes to "forget" or "get over" my ex. I've thought about posting for a date instead of a dive. I am not into the club scene by myself. Don't get me wrong I love to dance, meet people but I've never hung out in clubs and apparently that's where people "meet" dates. If I could take a walk on the waterfront and meet a great guy or go to a piano bar and meet a date or on a dive and meet someone to go out with or maybe at the gym... That's better than meeting someone in a room I can't breath in that is 3 sheets to the wind already. What a great way to start out. I am already having problems with my ex coming over drunk every week just to insult me so why start with a drunk guy.

Why can't I go deep sea fishing and meet a great guy or golfing and meet a great guy, or maybe rescue him on a mission hummm I don't think he'd call me what about you.

Anyone in the area wanna have some great food, a few good drinks, a walk by the water and maybe share an afghan and watch a movie? Then we'll go diving when it warms up.

OMG did I just do that.

PS

He must not live at home with his mother and father who make his rules for the past several years and for however long it takes for a woman to agree to pay all the bills at which time he'll move in to her home and try to be the boss.

He must have a job where he actually works and gets paid. REAL Money. Pays his bills. Can at least pay his way so I don't have to. Maybe pay mine sometimes.

And must be more mature than my 13 year old son.

No drugs allowed.

Prefer non-smoker.

I have a dog and cat.

No I won't give up my son, dog or cat. Firm.

Hahahaha

Edited by Raven, 18 January 2005 - 07:57 AM.

[Sophia]

Raven, that must be hard 'moving on' when you are forced to continue seeing your ex. I think I'd swear off men entirely if I had the example of my last serious boyfriend around all the time. I really like men, so that's saying a lot.

[WreckWench]

I've thought about posting for a date instead of a dive. I am not into the club scene by myself. Don't get me wrong I love to dance, meet people but I've never hung out in clubs and apparently that's where people "meet" dates.

Girl you are too funny! However, having been in the same situation I did an assessment and decided I needed to look where people were most likely to congregate that were the type of people I wanted to meet. Being a diver was one of my top requirements so I started to attend every dive club in my area! Do you know how many diveclubs are in the DFW area???? Then I realized that many of the club members were NOT single. So my second plan of attack was networking. I was making lots of friends so I asked them all to think about any single diver friends that they had. That worked some but I needed more prospects! So I took the internet challenge...at first I posted a profile on every internet site I could...got lots of hits...usually from NON-DIVERS but perfected my profile and my replies to maximize my success. Afterall....how can you beat power dating for 30 minutes a day at 2 in the morning???? Or whatever time I had to go and browse!!! I met some fantastic men via these sites many of whom I am still in contact with. None were Mr. Right but many were Mr. Great! I then discovered two sites that really produced a large number of quality matches and I'd be happy to share them with anyone that wants to know. While still looking for these quality matches I knew I needed to keep diving. I knew that most dive trips I went on would be full of couples but I tried to pick destinations that women would not usually pick for diving aka North Carolina and dive there. I was uaually only one of 2-4 women on a boat of 18 divers so the odds were good AND I was diving. I met several men that turned out the be wonderful friends...and excellent short term relationships. All were needed to help me evolve into the kind of person that I wanted and needed to become.

Soon I was challenged to run a trip with half women on it by some friends of mine and it turned into a singles trip. I not only reached out to many of the contacts I'd been making online but also to women I had met online as potential dive buddies as well. The cool thing was that many of the guys I thought I'd like when I met them in person were not half as much fun as the ones who I thought would be fun on the trip but not interesting on a personal level. Just goes to show you how wrong our impressions can be until you mix them with water (salt water preferably) and see what washes out. And something really bizarre...using the trip as a way to talk to people gave me a common ground to talk to them very quickly and the quality of the people I met on the trip was far greater than using my previous but more traditional methods. I think I also allowed myself to meet people for who they were and not for whom I was hoping that they would be. So having something to proactively talk to people about such as a singles trip or a local get together for singles allowed me to really meet some great people and best of all, ones that I would not have ever met in person if we had tried to meet via a traditional date. And as it turns out...a number of these folks contacted me after that first singles trip in January wanting to know how it went and when the next one was. I think they say that the rest is history!

So...if anyone wants to sponsor a local singles event and use it as a way to contact divers in their area just let me know! Afterall it worked for me! So now you can add 'love counselor' to my list of 'wench' credentials!

[WreckWench]

DiverBrian and TatonkaDive....your posts are RIGHT ON THE MONEY!!!! Wise men indeed!

[Walter]

Kamala is right, dive with other singles not expecting to hook up romantically. You'll be doing what you love with people who are fun and your chances of finding someone right for you increase dramatically.

[steelemagnolia6]

wow there is a lot of good advice on this thread. Where were ya'll whne I was looking for that voodoo doll to use on my latest old flame?

Actually nothing heals better than time. the words that someone spoke that time heals all wounds are the most true that I have ever heard. I have found that rebound relationships never work out and both parties wind up hurting over them.

Friends come in every size, shape and location. I have made so many very good friends on the internet that I have never met in person but love as much as the ones that pile up on my couch and drink my booze, eat my food, and love me enough to put up with my moods, my wicked sense of humor, and my brutal honesty.

My advice is to keep your head and your butt low! Give yourself some time to grieve for what it was and what might have been and move on my dear. There are lots of out there and one will swim by when you least expect it!!

Hold your friends dear because they are the ones that will support you through anything and they'll point and make fun of you when you come out of this and are looking for Ms. Right, using your best lines and that devasting smile that I am sure that you pull out for just such times....