90 replies to this topic

[No Pressure]

I see that Walter, efficient as always, has started a thread on rough water exit techniques under general diving, so go check it out. If it ever gets to "what do I do when I am impaled on the ladder?", we can bring it back to this forum.
Good recommendation, Brian. I will start a thread on typical dive trip injuries and first aid kits. Hangovers will be covered separately.

[Laura]

. Hangovers will be covered separately.

That one should be interesting!
L

[fbp]

Interesting discussion...

In the mid to late 80s, when I first learned PADI Basic, no one did safety stops... Catalina, Beg rock? etc.. all just did the 60' per minute ascent, lator adjusted to 30'pm.. and that was it, done deal...

When I came up to PNW on the first dive, I lost my buddy at 15' thinking he was behind me... he was, doing a 3min safety stop.. next time same thing. The whole diving community was geared to the 3 min safety stop... between 20-10'. Couldn't figure out what in the Heck they were doing, there wasn't an Deco?? Now it's automatic, was after the 2nd dive, but it was a interesting that there was such a difference in training. If, for some extream reason, currents or boaters or whatever and I blow past my 3 min safety stop, a lot of people become unglued... I was doing, practing down south in SoCal without problems (not saying you don't need to do it) so if I do HAVE to miss it, AND am careful it normally shouldn't be a problem.. some go bananas... so I just find it interesting... people get "Hit" even when everything is done correctly and other bounce up, hit the beer, Hot Tub and Extra Cirrucular activities working up a sweat and nothing happens.. heheheh.. so go figure.. anyplace-anytime.

I make it a practice to do a 3+safety stop 20-10ft, it's habit forming, but I don't panic if I can't for some exceptional reason... Barracudas might be one... In Truk I got attacked by a 4' Remora?? (sucking fish? heheheh... say no more... ) and that was cause to blow past it... but that's another story

It's just interesting to see the other profiles from different areas... curious...

Edited by fbp, 15 April 2004 - 10:08 AM.

[Walter]

Safety stops started to become common around 1988.

[No Pressure]

Hi fbp. Thanks for the perspective. As with many things in life, that which does not kill us makes us stronger. It's great to have those with > 20 yr dive experience give a perspective of the progression of the sport. When I took my deco/ extended range classes, the instructor gave us "homework" to read Deep Descent, and The Last Dive. These are books on recreational people diving the Andrea Doria and other ships to appx 250 ft ON AIR!. Our assignment was to list the techniques that would not be accepted today, and list the causes of death of all those in the book that died.
I am a firm believer that there are some things that are worth taking a chance on (like blondes/ brunettes, redheads in bars) but if there is a more conservative safety recommendation for diving, like safety stops, I will follow those recommendations.
A slow ascent from depth, like we have been discussing here, including 10 ft/ min from 1/2 max depth, and then "miss" a safety stop for some unanticipated reason, you are likely better off than those that "rush" up to 15 ft and stay there for 180 seconds. All in all though, doing a slow ascent, then hanging under the boat for 5 min checking out the remora's, cuda's, etc is best. I will emphasize that no matter what, drink lots of fluids before and after diving, and take an aspirin each dive morning.
Thanks for joining in. Keep on keepin' on.

[Walter]

Our assignment was to list the techniques that would not be accepted today

Those "techniques" that killed them weren't acceptable at that time either.

[Laura]

Hi fbp. Thanks for the perspective. As with many things in life, that which does not kill us makes us stronger. It's great to have those with > 20 yr dive experience give a perspective of the progression of the sport. When I took my deco/ extended range classes, the instructor gave us "homework" to read Deep Descent, and The Last Dive. These are books on recreational people diving the Andrea Doria and other ships to appx 250 ft ON AIR!. Our assignment was to list the techniques that would not be accepted today, and list the causes of death of all those in the book that died.
I am a firm believer that there are some things that are worth taking a chance on (like blondes/ brunettes, redheads in bars) but if there is a more conservative safety recommendation for diving, like safety stops, I will follow those recommendations.
A slow ascent from depth, like we have been discussing here, including 10 ft/ min from 1/2 max depth, and then "miss" a safety stop for some unanticipated reason, you are likely better off than those that "rush" up to 15 ft and stay there for 180 seconds. All in all though, doing a slow ascent, then hanging under the boat for 5 min checking out the remora's, cuda's, etc is best. I will emphasize that no matter what, drink lots of fluids before and after diving, and take an aspirin each dive morning.
Thanks for joining in. Keep on keepin' on.

NP,

I read both books, excellent, but they did make my eyes well up a few times :dltears:

A friend of mine has dove the Doria 3 times, once on air, twice on trimix. He said he doesn't even remember the dive on air. SCARY.....!

I like the Nietsche quote...good words to live by ...

As far as when to take a risk, I like the quote from one of my favorite movies "Risky Business". Joel's friend tells him ..."Once in a while you just have to say "what the F**K. What the F**K gives you freedom! "

So my opinion is....go for it! Say WTF....

Laura

Edited by Laura, 15 April 2004 - 11:05 AM.

[fbp]

Howdy NoPresssure,

Asprin? hadn't heard of that... keeps the blood running, thinner? faster etc...
Most dive profiles are pretty much that.. max depth and then mosey on back slowly.. typically stopping, trolling at various different depths on the way up.. no conscious effort to stop 1/2 way, but think I'll try it.. usually ascents are probably less than 10ft/min or pretty close to it... I like takeing pic so it's usually more as I try to kick start my strobes... and then take 5 pics of each..

Thanx for the info... it's always sumpt'n...

and did I say "Bac-ca-rudas".. I meant Blondes... heheh.. or is there a difference..

(just joking here... looking for the NEW Mods discipline..)
how kewl is that? eh??

Edited by fbp, 15 April 2004 - 11:12 AM.

[Diverbrian]

Howdy NoPresssure,

Asprin? hadn't heard of that... keeps the blood running, thinner? faster etc...
Most dive profiles are pretty much that.. max depth and then mosey on back slowly.. typically stopping, trolling at various different depths on the way up.. no conscious effort to stop 1/2 way, but think I'll try it.. usually ascents are probably less than 10ft/min or pretty close to it... I like takeing pic so it's usually more as I try to kick start my strobes... and then take 5 pics of each..

Thanx for the info... it's always sumpt'n...

and did I say "Bac-ca-rudas".. I meant Blondes... heheh.. or is there a difference..

(just joking here... looking for the NEW Mods discipline..)
how kewl is that? eh??

The most dangerous barracudas that I have run into were brunettes! The one well..... (I can't tell that story here). :anna2:

[No Pressure]

Jeez, ya'll DO read the fine print buried in the middle of my threads.
I just got my Alert Diver mag from DAN today, the May/June 2004 edition. There is an article talking about stopping half way up to build in another safety margin. They should have just called Singledivers.com! Check out the info on slow and fast tissue half times, etc. It's just after the afticle on underwater explosive recovery teams.

[WreckWench]

Jeez, ya'll DO read the fine print buried in the middle of my threads.
I just got my Alert Diver mag from DAN today, the May/June 2004 edition. There is an article talking about stopping half way up to build in another safety margin. They should have just called Singledivers.com! Check out the info on slow and fast tissue half times, etc. It's just after the afticle on underwater explosive recovery teams.

Hey NP....I can assure you that EVERYONE reads your posts!!! They are not only educational but HUGELY funny! By the way....I know a few dangeous Blonde Barracudas you should watch out for!!!

But about the DAN articles....that particular edition has another interesting article in as well. Did you catch it??? It has even provoked a few hits as it were! -ww

[No Pressure]

Yea, I did read that article by Scott. That guy was my assigned roommate, BTW. A very thoughtful, conservative and careful diver. I dove with him the first two days. He states it well in the article that even with proper dive profile, ascent rate, and focus, people can get bent. The individual's summary was that he was tired, and probably a little dehydrated. All summarized in our threads to date. He is OK now, and I look forward to diving with him again. Another point made in the article. DAN insurance is very important. Hey WW, I agree with your quote in the article stating DAN insurance is mandatory for SD.com trips.

[Coo's Toe]

I guess I'll have to post my serious side here, just for the record. As most of you know, I've started training with GUE. They teach an interesting take on the safety stop in the fundamentals class. It's what I do on the dives where I'm making a free ascent, or ascending along a wall, instead of following a gradual slope towards shore.

Stop for 1 minute at 30 feet. Take 1 full minute ascending from 30 to 20 feet. Stop at 20 feet for 1 minute. Take 1 full minute to ascend to 10 feet. Hang at 10 feet for 1 minute. Then take 1 minute to ascend from 10 feet to the surface. They call this a six minute ascent drill.

It kind of drives home several lessons. Ascend slowly through that last atmosphere of pressure where the pressure changes are greatest. It also forces you to master your buoyancy control where buoyancy control is the most difficult. Plus, it effectively doubles your safety stop time from 3 minutes to 6 minutes, adding just a bit more of an edge on those deep dives where limits were pushed a bit.

I try to limit my ascent rate to 30 feet a minute max. And I usually throw in some deeper stops along the wall, meandering up from depth rather than rushing it.

Then there are those days when I really want the ride home in a helicopter! LOL

[No Pressure]

Hey CT, I think you just posted the standard for the official singledivers.com ascent rate. Wouldn't it be great if our group became the only dive group in history to have a no bent rate, because of our attention to ascent rate, safety stops, hydration, anti-platelet use and then whips and chains on the surface intervals. NO HELICOPTER RIDES!

[Diverbrian]

Gee, I AM getting corrupted. The dive group that I helped organize uses the motto that "life is too short to drink cheap beer" and now this zoo that regularly discusses Pink Snorkels, Table Dances, Whips, Chains, Handcuffs,.... geez...

Seriously, if you are disclipined enough to do it CT has the right idea. I sometimes have to blow safety stops chasing after students and new divers. I hate when it happens, but those are the breaks. I have seen at least one diver surface with ten minutes of deco to do on the dive computer and dive the next day (two dives) with no symptoms. (I know what the computer said because it was the same brand that I use and I downloaded the information when I discovered that there was a problem. The classic: I think that I broke this dive computer when it is flashing ER the next day.)

I would love for this group to never have worry about that, however. The only ill effects that any of should have would be the hang-over on the flight home. ::Smiley with ice pack on head::