94 replies to this topic

[steelemagnolia6]

Well I am a little south east Texas gal and that verbage might not be an exact quote. I;m pretty sure that my grandfather would have said outta and brung, but I'm pretty sure that he'd agree that I said what he meant to get across to me....

[Hipshot]

Regarding some people's jealous nature:

I'm currently reading a book entitled, "First, Break All The Rules," by Marcus Buckingham and Curt Hoffman. It's really intended for managers in business, but they make a point about human nature and trying to change it that I think may apply here:

People don't change that much.
Don't wast time trying to put in what was left out.
Try to draw out what was left in.
That is hard enough.

Rick


A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.--Emo Phillips

[Cold_H2O]

I have been avoiding posting here. Let it get all the way to page 5 before I spoke.

I don't understand the jealous thing either. I am the type of person that will let you know how I feel. I also don't like to be monitored or checked up on. If I am out I am out. And you had better not ask those probing questions. I will let you know what I did and who is was with. Don't try and make me feel guilty. If I no longer want to be with someone I will let them know. I see no reason to lie or cheat on them.

Again I am an adult and expect to be treated like one.

cmt.. I don't know why he acted like this and my advice would be to sit down and talk it thru. You like this guy and would like to see the relationship continue. The only option I see is to talk. I am big on communication and if he can't explain his behavior or is unwilling to share his fears and concerns you THEN might want to rethink this. Everyone has bad days and days of insecurity. This might have just been one of those for him.

HipShot - I love that quote.

Edited by gis_gal, 03 June 2005 - 07:46 AM.

[jextract]

I'm virtually never a jealous person, but I can honestly say that the few times I have been have occurred when I thought I was in a little out of my league. A few years ago I dated a woman who I felt was a major catch - she was gorgeous, successful, smart, independent (sound familiar, Michelle?), she had lots of smart and successful male friends who all wanted in her pants, and the guy she dated before me was ridiculously wealthy (those of you in SoCal, Pepperdine University's school of business is named after his father). I couldn't figure out why she would go from him to me. Granted, I've got a good career, solid income, a graduate degree from a great school, etc., but I just couldn't help feeling like she should think that she was slumming it by being with me. I was projecting my feelings of inadequacy onto her. In retrospect that is absurd, but at the time it was very real. But my jealousy was entirely due to my feeling like I wasn't good enough for what I thought she should have from this pedestal I had put her on.

Just as an aside, over the next few months I learned that she was far more of a pain in the @$$ than she was worth and the goddess illusion I had of her evaporated. I still talk with her on occasion and without fail every time I hang up the phone I think, "Thank God I'm not still with her."

But I do have to note one thing (and let us know if you think I'm right or wrong on this one) ... but the girls who are a little nutty (or more than a little nutty) ... the sex is phenomenal.

[Walter]

Sometimes, Jamie, but not always.

[fbp]

But I do have to note one thing (and let us know if you think I'm right or wrong on this one) ... but the girls who are a little nutty (or more than a little nutty) ... the sex is phenomenal.

Sexy minds almost always overrule sexy bodies... (almost...)
Give me someone with a sexy mind anytime...

Usually it's an oxymoron
IMNSHO..

[cmt489]

OMG Jamie - did you two talk when I wasn't looking! I do know that he has many of those same issues (and no, I am not saying that I am gorgeous, successful, smart and independent - okay, independent yes...) that he has expressed to me in the past. Yes, I have dated very wealthy men in the past as well as some men who are all about their looks. He feels insecure about that and has asked why I would be with him. I try to tell him that I am with him because HE makes me happy. Not to mention, I find him very attractive and he definitely has a very good income (and, BTW, the income is not what keeps me there or in any relationship). I know this is a big part of it but if he can't get over it, this problem will, I fear, persist.

Okay, onto the next question Jamie - how did you get over your insecurities? Any advice?

[drdiver]

but the girls who are a little nutty (or more than a little nutty) ... the sex is phenomenal.

In my experience sex with nutty girls was just plain dangerous.....

Like Lord Byron, "Mad, Bad, and Dangerous to Know".

[Walter]

Darlin', work with him to overcome his insecurities, let him know women are attracted to confidence (not arrogance) and humor more than the qualities her thinks he's missing. I know he has excellent qualities or you wouldn't be so into him.

If he works on it, he can get past it. If he can't overcome it, there's always warm waters off the Florida coast for diving. <evil grin>

Seriously, good luck on this.

[jextract]

OMG Jamie - did you two talk when I wasn't looking! I do know that he has many of those same issues (and no, I am not saying that I am gorgeous, successful, smart and independent - okay, independent yes...) that he has expressed to me in the past. Yes, I have dated very wealthy men in the past as well as some men who are all about their looks. He feels insecure about that and has asked why I would be with him. I try to tell him that I am with him because HE makes me happy. Not to mention, I find him very attractive and he definitely has a very good income (and, BTW, the income is not what keeps me there or in any relationship). I know this is a big part of it but if he can't get over it, this problem will, I fear, persist.

Okay, onto the next question Jamie - how did you get over your insecurities? Any advice?

I think that I got past them in a few ways, not many of which will be helpful to you in all honesty.

She helped a lot because the more I got to know her the less I wanted to be with her - I came to realize that she wasn't the catch I built her up in my head to be; I realized that the PITA factor far outweighed everything else (or as the economist in me thinks: marginal cost exceeded marginal benefit) ... that was the point that I finally got it that no matter how hot a woman is (SD.com female company excluded, of course) somewhere out there is a guy who is sick of her crap. I got help from a couple of her friends in understanding her because they didn't like the way that she was treating me, and I had good company ... there were a few guys that they knew she'd dated before who all kicked her to the curb for the same reason.

I closed myself off from her emotionally so that there was no risk to me of being vulnerable in the relationship. And predictably, the more I closed off and the worse I treated her the more she wanted to be with me. I consciously took the power in the relationship because at that point it wasn't about anything emotional for me.

I started doing more of the things I enjoy (like diving) and was far less accomodating.

I hung out with my best friend a lot more.

I have a fantastic therapist whom I see every once in a while for an emotional "lube and oil change" and she was great in helping me understand why I was feeling the way I was feeling.

And then I broke up with her and started dating a stripper.

[fbp]

And then I broke up with her and started dating a stripper.

Always depend upon a True Professional in the time of need...
What starts well, ends well... (well for little time anyways)

[annasea]

I've reskimmed through this thread quickly and would like to add a few thoughts . . .

It's very easy to sit back and hypothesise as to why people react to certain situations in any given manner, but in reality, is it not a matter of perception in some/most cases?

All we have to go on is Michelle's version of the situation. Not that it's incorrect -- I'm sure it is accurate -- just that it's one side of the story. (My actions have occcasionally been misinterpreted by others, and I'd hate to be judged by them without clarification as to why they occurred. Therefore, I tend to try to empathise with the 'underdog' as well.)

Michelle, you mentioned early on that this matter has been discussed by the BF and you previously. If the two of you are having difficulties resolving it, Jamie touched on something that might be a possible solution for you two - have you thought about couples counselling? It'd be a shame to drop this guy that it sounds like you sincerely care about and have invested time in without further attempts at dealing with this issue. Or perhaps, if he's not comfortable discussing this issue in front of both a counsellor and you, he can attend counselling alone.

Someone mentioned 'red flags' earlier (Shamu, I believe) - this may very well be one, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a 'stop sign'. If he's willing to work on this issue, and understand that it's a problem of his - regardless of your actions - then this may just be a bump in the road.

I think pretty much everyone has 'issues' - some more detrimental to relationships than others, of course; physical abuse being pretty major but lack of confidence being pretty minor perhaps. It all depends on what one is prepared to work through. As drdiver wrote, some people bail at the slightest sign of trouble. Do those people ever find what they really want/need?

People are like pears - although they come wrapped in protective tissue, there will always be a bruise or two. If you keep searching through the pile looking for the one without any bruises, you just might find one with a flawless exterior, but once you take a bite or two, you'll probably realize it's not as 'perfect' on the inside as you thought it would be. Had you gone with the first pear that made you happy, and took the time to work through the (perceived) unpleasantness, and succeeded, in the long run you might find you're better off than continually chasing after that 'perfect' pear that probably isn't that great after all.

If everyone who had issues and quirks stayed out of a relationship, I think the population would have died out with Adam and Eve!

Warning - the following is just a general statement about people. Don't take me to task for making it!

Maybe you don't think you have issues, but I'm sure someone else thinks you do!

People's points of view are sometimes just a matter of perception - this ain't mathematics, after all!

Edited by annasea, 06 June 2005 - 12:53 AM.

[drbill]

Why do relationships have to be so complicated?????

Because there are usually two human beings involved (although back in the 70's it might be 3 or 4).

[drbill]

People who feel secure are never jealous.  It's partly a maturity issue.  The bottom line is he doesn't trust you. 

My personal outlook is if I can trust the woman I'm with, there's no reason for me to be jealous...

As usual, Walter is "right on" the money. People who are secure in their relationship, who trust their partner, and who have good communication have no need to be jealous.

I was with a woman for 8 years. I trusted her implicitly and she me. Although there were occasionally other issues, jealousy never reared its ugly head once. Although we broke up 7 years ago, we are still good friends and I often stay with her when I am on the mainland.

I trusted another woman I was with for a much shorter time (4 months). If she didn't want to get together one night, I never asked where she was. Apparently she took that as a sign I didn't care. She told me more than a decade later that she was sleeping with four other guys, and I never had a clue until she broke it off (and in this small town I'm amazed I never heard a rumor). She was very insecure in her relationships with men since her father left the family when she was young.

I prefer to trust someone until there is very good reason not to. I don't let the baggage of that second relationship affect my judgment, but I am more careful in selecting who I will be with (too careful, sigh).

Edited by drbill, 06 June 2005 - 09:28 AM.

[drbill]

Ok everyone is going to think I am insane when I say this. I have been fortunate enough not to have dated the insanely jealous type. A guy that I dated for several years was the exact opposite. He would encourage me to dress up in skimpy bar clothes and go out without him. He would offer to drive me and my girlfriends to the club and drop us off. Once he even stayed at my friend’s house with her dogs while we went out dancing and came to pick us up at 2am. Nothing made him jealous ever. It used to drive me crazy because without a little bit of jealously, I felt like he didn’t care....

Hmmm... are you sure he wasn't trying to break things off by putting you in situations where you were likely to be hit on by other men? Encouraging you to dress up in skimpy bar clothes and not going out with you sounds a bit strange to me.